Spouse debt after death

msb1234

msb1234 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

msb1234 said:

The wife could always do this - change it to TIC with her owning 90% and her husband 10%. So when he dies, only 10% of the house could be counted as his estate. However, 10% of a house where there is someone else living there and isnt in a position to see is actually worth nothing.

Just how do you think she could claim 90%? Severing the tenancy will result in a 50/50 split unless both parties agree to a different percentage. 

My mother changed her property to TIC with an 80/20 split. Her husband didnt agree to anything. She just completed the form via the conveyancing solicitor.

OOPS!
I’ve just checked the paperwork and I can see I’ve got it wrong! My Stepfather did indeed sign the relevant paperwork to change the TIC %, which was then witnessed. many apologies for misleading info!!

Keep_pedalling

msb1234 said:

msb1234 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

msb1234 said:

The wife could always do this - change it to TIC with her owning 90% and her husband 10%. So when he dies, only 10% of the house could be counted as his estate. However, 10% of a house where there is someone else living there and isnt in a position to see is actually worth nothing.

Just how do you think she could claim 90%? Severing the tenancy will result in a 50/50 split unless both parties agree to a different percentage. 

My mother changed her property to TIC with an 80/20 split. Her husband didnt agree to anything. She just completed the form via the conveyancing solicitor.

OOPS!
I’ve just checked the paperwork and I can see I’ve got it wrong! My Stepfather did indeed sign the relevant paperwork to change the TIC %, which was then witnessed. many apologies for misleading info!!

Mark it down as a senior moment, we all make them

A deed of trust is required to be completed by all parties if an uneven split has been agreed.

Sarahspangles

chillertwist209 said:

My mum has no debts.  Nothing joint with my father other than a bank account for bills and their home.

My mum is worried that she will have to pay off all his debts when he dies despite her having nothing to do with them.  She doesn’t even know the total level or the debt he might have.

Is there anything she can do to protect herself?

My concern would be that creditors realise he’s unlikely to pay while he’s still alive, and move to secure debt against the house.

As they have a joint bank account and shared address she could/should check her own credit record in case anything shows up there, and maybe look at the Land Registry record for the house.

chillertwist209

OP here and I am so grateful for all your input.   It is reassuring to know that it is unlikely that creditors would aggressively go after my mum for the debts after my dad has passed.    

Thankfully, I don’t think he would have a clue about TIC or be bothered to change it as a last act of spite. 

My mum has looked after her credit record and thankfully he hasn’t taken any of the debts in joint names (I wouldn’t put it past him to forge her signature or take out a loan in her name).   However, he’s obviously looking for new loans and credit cards regularly because mum has had some soft searches from different places.  Probably because she’s associated with him due to the joint bank account and property.  

The worst thing that could happen is for mum to die first because he will spend everything she has from her inheritance and probably sell the house and spend the equity whilst renting.    I’ve urged mum to get a will which states he is not to receive anything….I’m assuming that would override the usual laws or intestacy whereby spouse gets everything.  

I am reassured by some of these posts and mum will be too.  I don’t think any of dads debts are large in nature,  lots of pay day loans, and the biggest loan probably 5k.  I’m unsure if that would be classed as large in creditor terms.
 

Mojisola

Sarahspangles said:

My concern would be that creditors realise he’s unlikely to pay while he’s still alive, and move to secure debt against the house.

They would have to get signatures from both owners.

To keep a check, in case he tries to forge her signature, register for a property alert - it doesn't have to be an owner so you could do it.

www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

Alphatauri

I would be making sure one of the three permitted addresses on the property register is your Mum’s, or your email address. This makes sure your mum, or you, receive notifications of any changes e.g. severing joint tenancy,  registering a charge etc. as unlike snail mail it can’t be easily intercepted.  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/updating-registered-owners-contact-address

Keep_pedalling

chillertwist209 said:

OP here and I am so grateful for all your input.   It is reassuring to know that it is unlikely that creditors would aggressively go after my mum for the debts after my dad has passed.    

Thankfully, I don’t think he would have a clue about TIC or be bothered to change it as a last act of spite. 

My mum has looked after her credit record and thankfully he hasn’t taken any of the debts in joint names (I wouldn’t put it past him to forge her signature or take out a loan in her name).   However, he’s obviously looking for new loans and credit cards regularly because mum has had some soft searches from different places.  Probably because she’s associated with him due to the joint bank account and property.  

The worst thing that could happen is for mum to die first because he will spend everything she has from her inheritance and probably sell the house and spend the equity whilst renting.    I’ve urged mum to get a will which states he is not to receive anything….I’m assuming that would override the usual laws or intestacy whereby spouse gets everything.  

I am reassured by some of these posts and mum will be too.  I don’t think any of dads debts are large in nature,  lots of pay day loans, and the biggest loan probably 5k.  I’m unsure if that would be classed as large in creditor terms.
 

She should definitely put a will in place and also to make lasting powers of attorney for both finance and health.

The downside of joint tenants is that she can’t leave her share of the property to anyone, if she dies first he will become sole owner of the house.

theoretica

Is there a mortgage on the house? Does she have an idea of the likely size of the debts compared to the value of half the house?  I wonder if it would be helpful to think of the house as half 'his' and if she needs to look at some form of equity release after his death then so long as it only eats away his half of the property value she doesn't lose anything. 

If he has lots of different debts then they may be individually relatively small and less likely to push matters than if he has a large debt to one single company.

Malthusian

chillertwist209 said:

I’ve urged mum to get a will which states he is not to receive anything….I’m assuming that would override the usual laws or intestacy whereby spouse gets everything.  

Are you in England, Wales, Scotland or NI?

Mojisola

chillertwist209 said:

I’ve urged mum to get a will which states he is not to receive anything….I’m assuming that would override the usual laws or intestacy whereby spouse gets everything.

It's considered the norm for a spouse to leave their spouse provided for so he would be able to make a claim on her estate if she didn't leave him anything.