Why you cannot enforce your legal rights against Trustpilot

GraceCourt

LunaLater said:

You’re calling someone else a “keyboard warrior” after your rants on here?

I’ll leave you to it then, you knock yourself out champ.

I seem to have touched a nerve there!  Maybe Santa will bring you the full set of volumes of the White Book for Christmas? 

CKhalvashi

GraceCourt said:

CKhalvashi said:

In short, we would expect under our terms any UK resident consumer or entity to be able to bring a claim in the UK, no matter where the contract was legally handled.

It's not where the contract is handled that's significant, it's the parties between whom the contract is made.  In the case of an incorporated entity, if it's incorporated in Norway, it's outside the jurisdiction of the Courts in the three UK legal jurisdictions.  Despite this, Trustpilot A/S claims that the terms and conditions can be enforced in the UK.  Not against a legal entity registered in Conhagen, they can't!  Even if service of the claim was undertaken at the registered office of Trustpilot Limited in London, it would be of no effect - Trustpilot Limited is a completely different "legal person".

The Defence to the claim could be written in a single paragraph - "it's not me, guv'nor!"

Do you mind me asking why this is overly important and why you feel your rights have been breached?

Maybe we can give more assistance if you stop trying to school me in how the law works (for which I have plenty of knowledge) and get to the bottom of the matter.

As I understand you feel wronged by the group of companies collectively trading as Trustpilot. What have they done that is legally wrong that you require assistance with on the forums to protect your consumer rights?

Zinger549

CKhalvashi said:

GraceCourt said:

CKhalvashi said:

In short, we would expect under our terms any UK resident consumer or entity to be able to bring a claim in the UK, no matter where the contract was legally handled.

It's not where the contract is handled that's significant, it's the parties between whom the contract is made.  In the case of an incorporated entity, if it's incorporated in Norway, it's outside the jurisdiction of the Courts in the three UK legal jurisdictions.  Despite this, Trustpilot A/S claims that the terms and conditions can be enforced in the UK.  Not against a legal entity registered in Conhagen, they can't!  Even if service of the claim was undertaken at the registered office of Trustpilot Limited in London, it would be of no effect - Trustpilot Limited is a completely different "legal person".

The Defence to the claim could be written in a single paragraph - "it's not me, guv'nor!"

Do you mind me asking why this is overly important and why you feel your rights have been breached?

Maybe we can give more assistance if you stop trying to school me in how the law works (for which I have plenty of knowledge) and get to the bottom of the matter.

As I understand you feel wronged by the group of companies collectively trading as Trustpilot. What have they done that is legally wrong that you require assistance with on the forums to protect your consumer rights?

The OP seems to have some odd issues with various companies. Reading through some of their other posts It seems like they've gone down some sort of rabbit hole ( tin foil hat).

GraceCourt

CKhalvashi said:

Do you mind me asking why this is overly important and why you feel your rights have been breached?

Maybe we can give more assistance if you stop trying to school me in how the law works (for which I have plenty of knowledge) and get to the bottom of the matter.

As I understand you feel wronged by the group of companies collectively trading as Trustpilot. What have they done that is legally wrong that you require assistance with on the forums to protect your consumer rights?

At risk of repeating myself, the vast majority of the general public feel comfortable about the fact that there are laws in the United Kingdom that will protect them if their personal data is used unlawfully, causing them to suffer loss and/or distress as a direct consequence.  The vast majority of organisations try hard to be compliant and the Information Commissioner's Office ("ICO") generally prioritises assistance and guidance when personal data is stored and/or processed unlawfully, using its legal powers only as a last resort.

But the ICO is woefully under-resourced, and complaints to the ICO generally take around three months before they are even looked at and assigned to a caseworker, so where - as in this case - a real threat arises for data subjects' personal data because the organisation has placed itself outside any legal framework that might provide relief (whether financial, administrative, or both), I believe that it is very important that the general public becomes aware of that threat and individuals are able to make informed decisions accordingly.

In the case of Trustpilot A/S, it has very deliberately set up its business processes in such a way as to minimise - or even exclude completely - any obligations that it might otherwise have to comply with UK consumer protection legislation.  My post is to draw attention to that.  Trustpilot Limited has been incorporated in England, it has registered with the ICO as a data controller, but UK data subjects have no way of holding it to account as such because the UK Trustpilot web site makes it clear that users are contracting with a different company, registered in Copenhagen, that cannot be served with legal claims by UK data subjects.  Yet, it (Trustpilot A/S) wrongly pretends that the contract is governed by UK law, and is within the jurisdiction of the UK Courts, when in fact it is most certainly not the case.  What more is needed by way of indication that "all is not well"?

In the original post (above) I have asked Trustpilot A/S to respond on this.  I will post their reply, if there is one, but it will remain the case - as I have asserted - that Trustpilot A/S cannot be trusted (irony!) with the personal data of UK data subjects.

This forum is called "consumer rights": in dealing with Trustpilot A/S, UK data subjects have none.  This therefore appears to be an appropriate forum within which to flag up that salient fact, so that UK data subjects are aware of the significant risks to their personal data.  You might have plenty of knowledge of the law in England & Wales but clearly not enough to understand why no-one can now file a civil claim in the UK against a company incorporated in Denmark: this used to be easily possible via Part 78 CPR 1998 proceedings (EU Small Claims procedure) but Part 78 was revoked when the UK left the EU.

jon81uk

GraceCourt said:

CKhalvashi said:

Do you mind me asking why this is overly important and why you feel your rights have been breached?

Maybe we can give more assistance if you stop trying to school me in how the law works (for which I have plenty of knowledge) and get to the bottom of the matter.

As I understand you feel wronged by the group of companies collectively trading as Trustpilot. What have they done that is legally wrong that you require assistance with on the forums to protect your consumer rights?

At risk of repeating myself, the vast majority of the general public feel comfortable about the fact that there are laws in the United Kingdom that will protect them if their personal data is used unlawfully, causing them to suffer loss and/or distress as a direct consequence.  The vast majority of organisations try hard to be compliant and the Information Commissioner's Office ("ICO") generally prioritises assistance and guidance when personal data is stored and/or processed unlawfully, using its legal powers only as a last resort.

But the ICO is woefully under-resourced, and complaints to the ICO generally take around three months before they are even looked at and assigned to a caseworker, so where - as in this case - a real threat arises for data subjects' personal data because the organisation has placed itself outside any legal framework that might provide relief (whether financial, administrative, or both), I believe that it is very important that the general public becomes aware of that threat and individuals are able to make informed decisions accordingly.

In the case of Trustpilot A/S, it has very deliberately set up its business processes in such a way as to minimise - or even exclude completely - any obligations that it might otherwise have to comply with UK consumer protection legislation.  My post is to draw attention to that.  Trustpilot Limited has been incorporated in England, it has registered with the ICO as a data controller, but UK data subjects have no way of holding it to account as such because the UK Trustpilot web site makes it clear that users are contracting with a different company, registered in Copenhagen, that cannot be served with legal claims by UK data subjects.  Yet, it (Trustpilot A/S) wrongly pretends that the contract is governed by UK law, and is within the jurisdiction of the UK Courts, when in fact it is most certainly not the case.  What more is needed by way of indication that "all is not well"?

In the original post (above) I have asked Trustpilot A/S to respond on this.  I will post their reply, if there is one, but it will remain the case - as I have asserted - that Trustpilot A/S cannot be trusted (irony!) with the personal data of UK data subjects.

This forum is called "consumer rights": in dealing with Trustpilot A/S, UK data subjects have none.  This therefore appears to be an appropriate forum within which to flag up that salient fact, so that UK data subjects are aware of the significant risks to their personal data.  You might have plenty of knowledge of the law in England & Wales but clearly not enough to understand why no-one can now file a civil claim in the UK against a company incorporated in Denmark: this used to be easily possible via Part 78 CPR 1998 proceedings (EU Small Claims procedure) but Part 78 was revoked when the UK left the EU.

The final sentence explains the issue. Brexit. This wasn’t a problem until we left the EU.

GraceCourt

Zinger549 said:

The OP seems to have some odd issues with various companies. Reading through some of their other posts It seems like they've gone down some sort of rabbit hole ( tin foil hat).

They might be odd issues, but they are real.   Not long ago, I lost a County Court claim against Twilio UK Limited because for six months I was being pestered by unwanted SMS text messages sent to my phone from their US parent company.  There was a lot of evidence supporting the assertion that Twilio UK Limited was a data controller and not its parent company, Twilio Incorporated in the USA.

The point was that the product concerned sends text messages that cannot be blocked by the recipient, and Twilio Inc. in the USA was completely clueless and of no help whatsoever. The claim was conducted under Part 27 CPR 1998 and the Defendant spent thousands of pounds defending it... legal costs generally cannot be recovered in Part 27 proceedings.  I mention this because of the similarities with this issue: UK-incorporated subsidiary of large non-UK company was ruled not to be liable for unlawful processing of personal data by the non-UK company.

And I only filed the claim after six months of these unwanted messages - they were actually intended for someone else but they couldn't be blocked.  When I received three such text messages in the space of two minutes, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Tin foil hat? I wish...

CKhalvashi

As I can see, OP has an issue with the way the domains re-route.

They state that TP state that the issue is under UK law as a UK consumer but that they are concerned regarding the use of trustpilot.com instead of trustpilot.co.uk domain name.

I have just messaged a colleague who is our manager for the Nordic region for a business operating in the same way legally with regard to domain names. She is a Norwegian citizen with a degree in law and residency in Poland where her contract is based, who despite not expecting a reply until Monday, has told me what I already know.

The rights will be fully enforceable in the UK under your contractual terms as you have described. If this is not the case, you will have to enforce your rights in Norway, where under the EU GDPR provisions will be exactly the same under the Norwegian agreement with the EU.

The contract OP has will allow data to be transferred outside of the UK, therefore there is no issue with rights here. There is no issue with enforcement of rights as there is no legal issue with the contract or the rights within it.

She thanks OP additionally for giving her 10 minutes of someone to talk to, as she is having difficulty with her son this evening who has autism and is a single parent.

I hope this helps settle the mind of the OP.

eskbanker

GraceCourt said:
At risk of repeating myself, the vast majority of the general public feel comfortable about the fact that there are laws in the United Kingdom that will protect them if their personal data is used unlawfully, causing them to suffer loss and/or distress as a direct consequence.

I'd suspect that the vast majority of the general public neither know nor care about data protection legislation, but since neither of us can substantiate these views then they remain academic!

born_again

GraceCourt said:

GingerTim said:

Can't say I'd be especially worried about that - but then I wouldn't put personal data into a Trustpilot review.

It doesn't need to be in a review... just reading reviews will be providing data like your IP address, browser type, browser agent string, site from which you were referred, etc., etc.  That's all saleable information even though it might not include personal data and I'm not aware of any browsing security software that warns against browsing to trustpilot.com!

All sites can harvest this, but then most sites don't have deliberately misleading terms and conditions!

So just how does that information link to you personally?
It's not like it's you name, address etc. 


TBH, if you are that worried why are you using the internet?

eskbanker

born_again said:

GraceCourt said:

GingerTim said:

Can't say I'd be especially worried about that - but then I wouldn't put personal data into a Trustpilot review.

It doesn't need to be in a review... just reading reviews will be providing data like your IP address, browser type, browser agent string, site from which you were referred, etc., etc.  That's all saleable information even though it might not include personal data and I'm not aware of any browsing security software that warns against browsing to trustpilot.com!

All sites can harvest this, but then most sites don't have deliberately misleading terms and conditions!

So just how does that information link to you personally?
It's not like it's you name, address etc.

To be fair, OP already answered that yesterday on page 2 when I asked it in response to that post!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80147338/#Comment_80147338