EON: 'Smart' Economy-7 meters, result in 'Dumb' tariff options.

PeteTheMoneySaver

I am having some problems selecting EON tariffs with economy 7 'smart' meters installed, that I never use to have before they were fitted and I had the old style 'dumb' economy 7 meters.

Discussion thoughts 1./

I used to have two (not smart) meters already installed in a home I moved in to many years  ago. I have always purchased my energy with EON, and always selected  a normal (non economy 7 tariff) and the meter readings were simply added together and  I was charged the same rate for the combined readings.

Just  over a year ago I had smart meters to replace my existing dumb meters by EON (they said I had to have 2 smart meters rather than 1 because that is what I had before). I went straight on to a 2 year fixed rate economy 7 tariff [Next 2 Year v18] (which I am still on), because it was a very good deal at the time.

Recently I have been assessing flexible rate tariffs with EON, but they refuse to offer me a normal (non-economy 7 tariff), because I have two 'smart' economy 7 meters, but  they aways used to with 'dumb' meters. The annoying thing is that economy 7 tariffs work out more expensive now.

I can't understand why with 'old style' economy 7 meters they can combine the readings and charge at a single rate, but with 'smart' economy 7 meters, they can't combine the readings and charge at a single rate in the same way.

The meters may be smart, but the system is dumber! I am wondering If I need to call customer services to fix this, or else transfer my business to a new provider who can provide a sensible service.

Discussion thoughts 2./

Also, over the last year my bills have small corrective refunds to the charges applied to the economy-7 night rate, labelled as 'Energy Price Guarantee'. 

I presume this is due to this part of my fixed price contract exceeding the current energy 'Price-Cap'. However, I am not sure about this because I thought a fixed rate contract did exactly what it says on the tin.

I would be very grateful to hear from anyone who has knowledge or similar experiences in this area.

Thanks For Reading,

Regards, Pete.

Swipe

If you have two meters does that mean you are also charged double the standing charge? Why the two meters, did your property used to be two separate premises?

Scot_39

Sorry - do not reallly understand why EOn had to fit 2 smart meters to replace the old two - if they were also single rate meters - that is if you had a simple E7 configuration before - and only had 2 circuits / 2 rates.

A bog standard single 5 port smart meter with ALCS handles standard E7 easily. It's what they are designed for.

Which model did they fit ?

Can you send a photo of your meters and cabinet wiring - redacting serial numbers etc if visible ?

For instance - I used to have a RTS (Heatwise = radio switched EMEB special) meter driving only hot water and night storage circuits (seperately - not standard for normal E7) and a standard meter for rest of house. 3 circuits 3 rates across 2 meters 2 MPANs.

The old EOn upgraded those 2 boxes to 1 single digital 5 port E10 meter with ALCS (off peak circuit time switched live output ) (hot water and NSH now driven as one / in parallel). 

But that took 3 meter visits to get a fitter who understood the complexity - the first 2 looked, 1 even phoned their supervisor for advice, didn't want to risk modifications and left.

And then later upgraded that one meter for one single smart meter - configured for E10 - 3 off peak time periods. ( The same model they used for E7 or single rate - just a software configuration - and for multirate E7/E10 - as had chosen a 4 port model at the time - needed an external contactor to switch the off-peak circuits)

It could simply be a computer says no thing now - the database will show you have 2 meters - as I say no longer to my mind even a standard smart E7 configuration - and that will flag a problem.  But would guess would have had 2 MPANs for 2 old meters on the old database before anyway.  But the actual meter codes could be different - smart vs dumb - so causing the problem.

EPG / fixes

As to your fix and EPG issues - the rules around EPG were easier to understand for SR - but applied to MR too (at one stage some suppliers used a different discount peak vs off-peak - bit in the end were told to apply equally to day and night rates)

So if fix below EPG price (c33p SR) - no discount

If fix above EPG - but below EPG+max EPG discount (c17p/33p/17p for the 3 periods for electric) - paid EPG.

If above EPG + Max discount - in theory paid rate-max discount (but many suppliers swapped such people to SVT - at least temporarily - whilst EPG discounts applied.)

Without knowing the split for you regions E7 - and how they applied that to your 2 meters / 2 tariffs - not sure why only showed on E7 off peak meter section. And at what level. (My guess would be EOn's E7 off peak rates were more in the 14-17p area in areas after EPG discounts than the lows of EDFs sub 10p offerings - so peak rates in the low-mid 40ps)

Just as a guide - and remember that's only for 1 region - an example EOn E7 rate - is shown here

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/12/economy-7-price-rises-form-january/

That is from that customers price change summary letter - and both day and night rates are after the EPG discount - and inc VAT.

So c42-5p peak / c 14-16.4p peak for those 2 periods the rates paid after discount applied.  They probably dropped about 1p in Apr at a guess to somewhere in the middle.

Did your peak rate meter only show the one rate - and if so - what sort of price ?

My E10 bills - and those of other E7 users I have seen from EOn posted here - had the EPG discounts applied to both sections - and equally to both peak and off-peak rates throughout by EOn Next.

PS Are you once again paying two SC - one for each MPAN ?

I am not sure if it still exists at EOn Next - but the "complex metering" team at the old EOn - were far more helpful than normal customer services for non standard installs.  The number I had didn't work for a neighbour about a year later - so not sure if they do still exist.  (I even managed to talk home wiring circuit level - not just tariff level - with one of their staff - clearly with an electrical background too.)

Gerry1

Sounds like the property may once have had THTC or a similar Restricted Hours Tariff which is being now phased out.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/Energy/Energy Consultation responses/Restricted Meter Good Practice Guide.pdf

Edit: Typo

Scot_39

Gerry1 said:

Sounds like the property may once have had THTC or a similar Restricted Hours Tsriff which is being now phased out.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/Energy/Energy Consultation responses/Restricted Meter Good Practice Guide.pdf/

Yes did worry about that - as many had managed to successfully switch onto E7 deals - to get lower fixed prices etc - many even retaining old meter time switching etc.

Thanks for that link - I had read before - as my E10 is probably on that list.  But their certainly hasn't been the "go back to old" offered for some here - iirc EOnNext actually denied they did E10 to a customer who's smart install had taken them off - and lost the Ombudsman case as well.

EOnNext as good as told me leaving was a one way street. They have regularly in the past tried to sell me flat rate (I can struggle to use enough off-peak in summer) or E7.

CSI_Yorkshire

PeteTheMoneySaver said:

Discussion thoughts 2./

Also, over the last year my bills have small corrective refunds to the charges applied to the economy-7 night rate, labelled as 'Energy Price Guarantee'. 

I presume this is due to this part of my fixed price contract exceeding the current energy 'Price-Cap'. However, I am not sure about this because I thought a fixed rate contract did exactly what it says on the tin.

I would be very grateful to hear from anyone who has knowledge or similar experiences in this area.

You are pretty accurate with that assumption.

I suggested last year that fixed contracts should do "exactly what it says on the tin" and got laughed at and called a corporate stooge.

QrizB

PeteTheMoneySaver said:

I used to have two (not smart) meters already installed in a home I moved in to many years  ago. ... Just  over a year ago I had smart meters to replace my existing dumb meters by EON (they said I had to have 2 smart meters rather than 1 because that is what I had before).

I am flabbergasted - my gast has rarely been so flabbered - that they felt the need to replace your obsolete two-meter system with a pretty-much-unknown dual smart meter system.

It would have made much more sense to do a little bit of meter tails juggling and only install one meter.

I guess you have one of those odd systems with two MPANs?

Would you be happy to share a photo of this dystopian feat of electrical engineering, for the astonishment of your fellow forum users? (Edit out any personally-identifying information.)

PeteTheMoneySaver

Hi again,

Thank you all for your very detailed responses. I am so grateful for the time and effort you lavish on discussing my problem. I have a huge apology to make in that memory has played a cruel trick on me, and in fact I only have one smart meter fitted. I think my memory has mapped forward from the old-style meter I used to have with two readings to the notion of having two meters now which isn’t true. So sorry - what a numpty. I have attached photo’s of both the old meter, and the new one showing the wiring. My questions still stand, but now the problem is simplified somewhat. When I agreed to have a new meter installed, I didn’t agree to any set-up restricting me to economy seven. If interested still please advise me if you can.

Old Meter.

New Meter.

Thank you all so much once again.

Pete.

victor2

Presumably you are looking for new tariffs on Eon's website? If so, it may only show E7 tariffs because they know you have a meter set up for E7. 
Most suppliers will offer single rate tariffs from a two rate meter, just like you had before. Look on something like uSwitch and don't say you have E7. You need your total annual usage in kWh and will see available tariffs, including from Eon Next (as Eon now are). You will then have to contact the supplier you want to use and confirm they will accept your two rate meter on a single rate tariff.

[Deleted User]

exactly what it says on the tin"

Which is what exactly? I must have missed the previous discussion. The only things that are fixed are the unit price and the contract term. The Standing Charge can be adjusted if the consumer decides to move from DD to non-DD payments. 

Scot_39

That new meter is only a 4 port meter.

And as you only had the old meter and not the wiring no evidence your wiring was ever split into peak and off peak feeds.

That means that whilst it could well be applying e7 or single rate tariffs to the whole house it cannot provide dedicated time switched output to drive directly nsh or hot water tank immersion heater circuits if you have them.

The fact you selected single rate anyway suggests you weren't a heavy off peak user.  So maybe you have neither.

But if do they would need either an auxiliary contactor feeding the split consumer unit feed or individual time switches or daily manual switching to avoid heavy use at peak rates on E7.

I have no idea why with one meter EOn now refuse to bill you SR though - or simply convert it by remote programming to SR.

Some customer service people are pretty limited - echoing blindly what their screen tells them - so don't be scared to ask again or to go over their head to a supervisor level.

If they won't - sure other suppliers will - but call or better still email to have written record - and check before switching.  Although some may / will default initially to meter type - believe a quick call should sort it once up and running (do a search - but iirc others have said here in posts that was how they handled it with likes of Octopus).