HELP ! Urgent advice... ESA & HB stopped, Overpayment.......Deceased estate ?

Ladysmyth

Help !

Due to long term health condition I received Income Related ESA and Housing Benefit.

I've also applied to be Administrator of an estate due to a death, there's no Will.

One Bank happily transfers funds without Letters of Administration because it was below their limit.

Other Bank, a lager amount, required Letters of Administration before funds released.

Prior to releasing funds, both Banks implied accounts have to be frozen and funds transfered elsewhere.

I enquiried with Citizens Advice Bureau and was told open seperate Bank Account and notify DWP explaining circumstances.

I telephoned DWP, and after being on hold for just short of 2 hours, I was told the same, put it all in writting and explained the circumstances, which I did.

I even mentioned my concerns with both CAB and DWP,  that the estate funds in my Bank Account, will look like my own savings, taking my savings over the £16000 limit; although I was assured this is totally normal and just write to the DWP and explain circumstances.

Even my own Bank, I explained situation, possible implications but again assured, nothing to worry about, just open a new Account online and name it " the Deceased persons Estate" or words to that effects, which I did.

I even phoned Probate Office, explained that one Bank has released funds without needing to see Letters of Administration and can I pay bills from funds received; Probate office said, once funds released, you can do what you want.

I wrote to both DWP and HB, explained situation, that estate funds are in a new Bank Account opened solely to hold funds from the estate.

    I've explained that I've reimbursed myself the funeral cost and other associated expenses and funds will remain in that account until the Administrator period is complete.

I submitted Bank statements informing them of the estate balance and that of my own savings.

My personal saving are below the £16000 limit.

Both DWP and HB returned the Bank statements which were submitted and I hear no more about it.

In meantime, Letters of Administration are issued and before I apply for funds from second Bank Account, I receive a letter from DWP Recovery From Estates, which clearly states "DO NOT DISTRIBUTE ESTATE" otherwise you will be liable for repaying any overpayment that has occurred.

I complete Recovery From Estate request, they write back stating it looks like there's been an overpayment, we strongly advise you "DO NOT DISTRIBUTE ESTATE" which is repeated quite a few times within the letter, in fact, it's repeated many times within every additional letter received from them.

With Letters of Administration; funds from the other Bank are transfered into the new Bank Account, the one opened solely for holding the estate funds.

I write to both DWP and HB and I explain the new balance, submit Bank statements and say funds will be held until the Administration period is completed.

Now, roughly 10 months later, my ESA and HB have been stopped, stating due to my savings being over £16000.

There's also a demand for overpayment and my rent needs paying.

In the meantime, the Recovery from Estates are still investigating whether there been an overpayment during the deceased lifetime, going back 20 odd years and I'm awaiting for Banking records to be produced.

It's my understanding, that until the Recovery from Estate has completed their investigation, the Administrator period is still ongoing and I should continue to receive ESA and HB.

I'm actually a beneficiary to a share of the estate, which will no doubt stop my entitlement to benefits but currently, the estate can't be distributed because of the Recovery from Estate investigation.

Say, I wasn't a beneficiary to the estate and just an Administrator, all my benefits stop ?

I spoken with HB, they say there is nothing they can do and I need to take it up with the DWP.

DWP said they will call back next Monday or Tuesday or maybe Wednesday if they are busy, that was 2 weeks ago.

CAB say I must request a Mandatory Reconsideration but I currently have an unrelated ongoing Mandatory Reconsideration which relates to 2020, which still hasn't been resolved ?

Help !

Alice_Holt

Do a MR as suggested by Cit A.
Chase it up and get your MP involved.
Consider doing a Pre-action judicial review letter with the help of Cit A - https://cpag.org.uk/welfare-rights/judicial-review/judicial-review-pre-action-letters

Ladysmyth

Thanks for responding.

  My current MR still not be completely resolved since 2020, although at least I've been entitled to & receiving ESA & HB whilst the DWP continue to do whatever it's they're doing.

 

 If I request MR for the funds of estate, which can only be considered complete once Recovery from Estates has completed its investigation, which could takes months, maye 4, 5 or 6, what if it take takes 2 years, what do I do in the meantime, I do I pay my rent, buy food.

You would think in such circumstances, a situation such as this could be resolved via a phone call.

My original MR can't progress because, they havent made a decision and until I get a decision and a decision notice, I can't appeal.

peteuk

My basic understanding is this.

The limit for funds is £50K+ goes to probate, but equally when it comes to arrangements for these funds each bank/building society has their own rules.  

Hence the small account was transfered and the large account is awaiting probate.

But this is not your money, it’s the estates and any liabilities (debts, over payment) are held against the estate.

eg total amount £200K, debts £100K - estate works out at £100K. Which is then decided by whatever means on the will.

Yes the smaller account can be used to pay for funeral costs, if theirs property then the running of the property (low level maintenance eg gas,electric).

Probate can take a while, especially without a will.  

However if youve transfered the small account it will show up on your accounts, just technically not be your money until probate is sorted.  How the DWP view this may be a different answer.

Good luck. 

Ladysmyth

No Will, no probate....but must obtain Letters of Administration from Probate Office, which all completed and been issued.

Small acount, still substantial amount but less than £10k so funds transferred into holding account, DWP & HB informed but at time, Letters of Admin not been issued, hence why I confirmed with Probate Office, that I can use some of the funds to cover Funeral expensive, which were meant to be paid from estate but as Funeral Directors messed up, I had to pay last minute.

Other Account, Letters Admin needed but before funds were Transferred, Recovery from Estate letter arrived, which stated.... you must treat this as a claim against the estate, so we strongly advise you Do Not Distribute Estate, otherwise the exectuor will be responsible, which was repeated a few times.

Money transferred into same account as before and DWP & HB, both told it's from estate and will be held until period of Administration is complete.

There was no property to be sold or one which makes up the estate, just the estate funds.

All was well, DWP & HB had returned Bank statements which were sent when I told them of situation and the transfer of funds, thst is, until 10 months later, when a HB overpayment letter arrived.

It was only after responding to this overpayment letter, did I find out all my benefits have been stopped and both DWP & HB want their money back, because now, my saving are over the £16,000 limit, which without the funds from the estate, they are nowhere near close.

 

Ladysmyth

Now my Landlord, despite informing them of situation, has issued a Notice seeking possession because HB have reclaimed the rent  

Ladysmyth

Still no help from HB or DWP.

   I've even found an online post, where Recovery from Estates are investigating a similar if not identical circumstances and after neary 3 years, the investigation is still on going and the estate can't be distributed, although the Administrator is not in receipt of benefits, unlike myself.

Replies to that post, imply that Recovery from Estates can take as long as they want, there's no time limit and are notoriously slow.

From my own experience of a benefits discrepancy, it's still not been resolved since 2020.

Also, when enquiring about an Executor Account in my Bank or any other Bank or Building Society and, it's as if they think I'm trying to do something I shouldn't.

When I initially made enquiries with the Banks that held the Accounts, it was implied I had to transfer the funds elsewhere, no mention of an Executor Account, just the Accounts are frozen and all Direct Debit have been cancelled.

 When I approached my own Bank and I enquired about an Executors Account, I was more or less persuaded, it wasn't necessary and at the time, I went along with it, believing my Bank was providing correct advice, after all, they're a Bank but in hindsight, I wasn't advised of the best account to open, interest rates available or even asked the sum involved.

As the estate is more or less untouchable and can't be distributed until Recovery from Estates has finished their investigation, it might as well be in the highest interest paying available.

In fact, regardless of Recovery from. Estates investigation, surely I should have been provided with option to earn the best return

Surely my Bank should be offering the best financial available, which they've haven't.

Ladysmyth

It looks like I'm just posting to myself on this forum....... Thanks to those who responded initially.

Ideally, I'd rather this thread be deleted.

From now on, I won't be checking for resplies or responses.

Therefore, this thread is closed

Alice_Holt

"It looks like I'm just posting to myself on this forum....... Thanks to those who responded initially. Ideally, I'd rather this thread be deleted.

From now on, I won't be checking for resplies or responses. Therefore, this thread is closed"

Do a MR as suggested by Cit A on the basis that you can't access these monies.
Chase it up and get your MP involved.

Consider doing a Pre-action judicial review letter with the help of Cit A - https://cpag.org.uk/welfare-rights/judicial-review/judicial-review-pre-action-letters
The DWP lawyers have to respond within 14 days.
This could quickly resolve your issue of benefits stopping.

I posted this at the top of your thread and am puzzled why you seem to be ignoring what your local CA and I (with CA experience) am telling you.
But then you won't see this. 
Shame, as a JR letter could sort your benefits out quickly - if the DWP are legally incorrect in their decision making and have made you destitute.

Ladysmyth

Alice_Holt said:

"It looks like I'm just posting to myself on this forum....... Thanks to those who responded initially. Ideally, I'd rather this thread be deleted.

From now on, I won't be checking for resplies or responses. Therefore, this thread is closed"

Do a MR as suggested by Cit A on the basis that you can't access these monies.
Chase it up and get your MP involved.

Consider doing a Pre-action judicial review letter with the help of Cit A - https://cpag.org.uk/welfare-rights/judicial-review/judicial-review-pre-action-letters
The DWP lawyers have to respond within 14 days.
This could quickly resolve your issue of benefits stopping.

I posted this at the top of your thread and am puzzled why you seem to be ignoring what your local CA and I (with CA experience) am telling you.
But then you won't see this. 
Shame, as a JR letter could sort your benefits out quickly - if the DWP are legally incorrect in their decision making and have made you destitute.

Alice... I had to reply as you were good enough to post such a thorough and helpful reply, especially when I'd said the thread is closed.... Thank you.

I don't know how but I somehow  missed your link in your initial reply but thanks for reposting, it looks promising.

Prior to contacting CAB, I had already requested the MR with DWP during a phone call and I've since been asked to provide certain documents, which in hindsight, the DWP should have asked for, when I first informed them of the situation.

My concern regarding the MR is the time taken, it's not that I won't follow the advice from CAB, I just expected CAB to be able to do more, where they've said I've got to wait for a decision, which can take up to 12 weeks and there's nothing they or I can do, until I have a final decision.

My original unrelated MR has and still is, taking ages and despite phoning, writing and providing all the documents requested, it has still not been resolved and until they provide a final decision, I've been lead to believe by CAB, I can't take it any further.

When this situation first became apparent, my ESA was stopped for 10 months, although on that occasion, I was still able to receive HB and I lived off my savings until my ESA was reinstated and backdated.

Currently, mainly due to my rent, my savings won't last much longer and although I have saving, I still suffer from a long term illness and as my saving are below the upper limit, I'm still entitled to benefits.

As Recovery from Estate are investigating, then the period of Administration can't be completed and the estate can't be distributed and just like my original MR, it's taking ages and could take another 3 or 6 months.

Alice_Holt

Unfortunately DWP can take time doing the MR. This has to be completed before Tribunal stage.
This is why chasing the DWP, and getting your MP involved is important.

If your local advice charity can do a Pre-action judicial review letter (assuming the DWP decision is incorrect) this is a very useful tactic as the DWP lawyers have to respond within 14 days. (Whereas an MR / appeal is much longer). However this needs an experienced benefits caseworker to pick up your case. I'd check with your local Cit A if they have the capacity to do this.