Valuation survey - structural report required

squarehead94

Hi all, so going through my broker for a deal with nationwide. Value survey done and come back with nil value due to structural checks required for a chimney stack (chimney breast was removed from property in the 1970s) no issue there, happy to have structural report done on the chimney stack.

Email today from nationwide via broker which states full property structural survey required. I've contacted nationwide and asked why is this required and not just a survey done for the highlighted issue, the chimney stack.

No other issues were found whatsoever and the cost of a full structural survey is 2-3 times that of a survey for the chimney stack. They advise they are going to raise this query with the underwriters, as I say in my opinion they should only require a survey for the issues raised by the valuer, but advice while I wait for their response would be great.

Has anyone encountered this before and can advise on the likelihood that I will be able to just get the individual survey done?
Thanks 

dunstonh

Email today from nationwide via broker which states full property structural survey required. I've contacted nationwide and asked why is this required and not just a survey done for the highlighted issue, the chimney stack.

A survey would be insufficient for a targeted structural issue.     The pecking order is effectively (names will vary):
1) mortgage valuation
2) homebuyers report
3) survey
4) structural engineers report

No other issues were found whatsoever and the cost of a full structural survey is 2-3 times that of a survey for the chimney stack. 

Interesting as our structural engineer's report was cheaper than the survey.  The survey was about £2500 and the structural engineer's report was about £1300.
When you obtained the quote for the structural engineer's report did you state it would be focused on a particular area or was it for the whole house/associated buildings?

 They advise they are going to raise this query with the underwriters, as I say in my opinion they should only require a survey for the issues raised by the valuer, but advice while I wait for their response would be great.

I disagree.   A surveyor, if they saw something, would recommend a structural engineers report unless it is a minor issue that they can offer advice on.

Has anyone encountered this before and can advise on the likelihood that I will be able to just get the individual survey done?

It is impossible to guess what the outcome will be but in our case, we went with a survey and structural engineer report. The survey was a no-brainer as parts of the property were 500 years old.    The structural engineers report was focused on the areas identified in the mortgage valuation and the surveyor's report.   The surveyors report gave more info than the mortgage valuation (which actually missed the main issues but focused on a minor one).    But it didn't give enough detail or information and it recommended a structural engineers report should be obtained.

You could end up getting a surveyors report only to find it recommends a structural engineers report.

squarehead94

dunstonh said:

Email today from nationwide via broker which states full property structural survey required. I've contacted nationwide and asked why is this required and not just a survey done for the highlighted issue, the chimney stack.

A survey would be insufficient for a targeted structural issue.     The pecking order is effectively (names will vary):
1) mortgage valuation
2) homebuyers report
3) survey
4) structural engineers report

No other issues were found whatsoever and the cost of a full structural survey is 2-3 times that of a survey for the chimney stack. 

Interesting as our structural engineer's report was cheaper than the survey.  The survey was about £2500 and the structural engineer's report was about £1300.
When you obtained the quote for the structural engineer's report did you state it would be focused on a particular area or was it for the whole house/associated buildings?

 They advise they are going to raise this query with the underwriters, as I say in my opinion they should only require a survey for the issues raised by the valuer, but advice while I wait for their response would be great.

I disagree.   A surveyor, if they saw something, would recommend a structural engineers report unless it is a minor issue that they can offer advice on.

Has anyone encountered this before and can advise on the likelihood that I will be able to just get the individual survey done?

It is impossible to guess what the outcome will be but in our case, we went with a survey and structural engineer report. The survey was a no-brainer as parts of the property were 500 years old.    The structural engineers report was focused on the areas identified in the mortgage valuation and the surveyor's report.   The surveyors report gave more info than the mortgage valuation (which actually missed the main issues but focused on a minor one).    But it didn't give enough detail or information and it recommended a structural engineers report should be obtained.

You could end up getting a surveyors report only to find it recommends a structural engineers report.

Sorry I meant structural survey, not a standard survey.
What I am saying is I have no issue in getting a targeted structural report on the area with issues found (chimney stack) however I do not feel I should have to pay for a complete property structural survey when it is not necessary, as the valuation survey found no issues, except for the query regarding chimney stack.

dunstonh

squarehead94 said:

dunstonh said:

Email today from nationwide via broker which states full property structural survey required. I've contacted nationwide and asked why is this required and not just a survey done for the highlighted issue, the chimney stack.

A survey would be insufficient for a targeted structural issue.     The pecking order is effectively (names will vary):
1) mortgage valuation
2) homebuyers report
3) survey
4) structural engineers report

No other issues were found whatsoever and the cost of a full structural survey is 2-3 times that of a survey for the chimney stack. 

Interesting as our structural engineer's report was cheaper than the survey.  The survey was about £2500 and the structural engineer's report was about £1300.
When you obtained the quote for the structural engineer's report did you state it would be focused on a particular area or was it for the whole house/associated buildings?

 They advise they are going to raise this query with the underwriters, as I say in my opinion they should only require a survey for the issues raised by the valuer, but advice while I wait for their response would be great.

I disagree.   A surveyor, if they saw something, would recommend a structural engineers report unless it is a minor issue that they can offer advice on.

Has anyone encountered this before and can advise on the likelihood that I will be able to just get the individual survey done?

It is impossible to guess what the outcome will be but in our case, we went with a survey and structural engineer report. The survey was a no-brainer as parts of the property were 500 years old.    The structural engineers report was focused on the areas identified in the mortgage valuation and the surveyor's report.   The surveyors report gave more info than the mortgage valuation (which actually missed the main issues but focused on a minor one).    But it didn't give enough detail or information and it recommended a structural engineers report should be obtained.

You could end up getting a surveyors report only to find it recommends a structural engineers report.

Sorry I meant structural survey, not a standard survey.
What I am saying is I have no issue in getting a targeted structural report on the area with issues found (chimney stack) however I do not feel I should have to pay for a complete property structural survey when it is not necessary, as the valuation survey found no issues, except for the query regarding chimney stack.

Valuation surveys are next to useless and unless you have a newish build, they shouldn't be relied upon.    You shouldn't need or be expected to get a full structural survey as that would be expensive.   A targeted structural engineer's report should suffice and I can't see any reason why a lender would not accept that.

squarehead94

dunstonh said:

squarehead94 said:

dunstonh said:

Email today from nationwide via broker which states full property structural survey required. I've contacted nationwide and asked why is this required and not just a survey done for the highlighted issue, the chimney stack.

A survey would be insufficient for a targeted structural issue.     The pecking order is effectively (names will vary):
1) mortgage valuation
2) homebuyers report
3) survey
4) structural engineers report

No other issues were found whatsoever and the cost of a full structural survey is 2-3 times that of a survey for the chimney stack. 

Interesting as our structural engineer's report was cheaper than the survey.  The survey was about £2500 and the structural engineer's report was about £1300.
When you obtained the quote for the structural engineer's report did you state it would be focused on a particular area or was it for the whole house/associated buildings?

 They advise they are going to raise this query with the underwriters, as I say in my opinion they should only require a survey for the issues raised by the valuer, but advice while I wait for their response would be great.

I disagree.   A surveyor, if they saw something, would recommend a structural engineers report unless it is a minor issue that they can offer advice on.

Has anyone encountered this before and can advise on the likelihood that I will be able to just get the individual survey done?

It is impossible to guess what the outcome will be but in our case, we went with a survey and structural engineer report. The survey was a no-brainer as parts of the property were 500 years old.    The structural engineers report was focused on the areas identified in the mortgage valuation and the surveyor's report.   The surveyors report gave more info than the mortgage valuation (which actually missed the main issues but focused on a minor one).    But it didn't give enough detail or information and it recommended a structural engineers report should be obtained.

You could end up getting a surveyors report only to find it recommends a structural engineers report.

Sorry I meant structural survey, not a standard survey.
What I am saying is I have no issue in getting a targeted structural report on the area with issues found (chimney stack) however I do not feel I should have to pay for a complete property structural survey when it is not necessary, as the valuation survey found no issues, except for the query regarding chimney stack.

Valuation surveys are next to useless and unless you have a newish build, they shouldn't be relied upon.    You shouldn't need or be expected to get a full structural survey as that would be expensive.   A targeted structural engineer's report should suffice and I can't see any reason why a lender would not accept that.

Yes basically the lender booked a valuation report which was absolutely fine, they came and assessed and found no issues other than the chimney stack which I'm happy to have a structural engineers report on. In their initial email (the lender) it's contradictory as it says 
Structural engineers report required to provide a valuation figure currently at nil value until received please find the valuers comments 
Rear chimney breast removed stack above still in place. A full report must be obtained from acceptable qualified surveyor/chartered structural engineer, detailing if the remaining structure is adequately supported and if any works are required to ensure future stability, together with an estimate of any costs of repairs. 
Please follow the below criteria:
Report must be dated within last 90 days
This must be for the whole property and have comments on any specific issues which the valuer has identified. 
Then lists the qualifications the surveyor must have.

This to me is contradictory as initially it says the report needs to highlight the issues/concerns raised but then in the requirements states a full structural survey is required which I feel is completely unnecessary and adding a substantial cost when I'm happy to provide a targeted report. I thought the nil valuation was also unnecessary from the valuer as an estimate still could have been given but that's another debate all together

dunstonh

In our case, we went back to the estate agent and made them aware and negotiated.   The vendor covered the cost structural engineer and the cost of the remedial work.    So, there is an opportunity here for you (potentially)

Rear chimney breast removed stack above still in place. A full report must be obtained from acceptable qualified surveyor/chartered structural engineer, detailing if the remaining structure is adequately supported and if any works are required to ensure future stability, together with an estimate of any costs of repairs. 
Please follow the below criteria:
Report must be dated within last 90 days
This must be for the whole property and have comments on any specific issues which the valuer has identified. 
Then lists the qualifications the surveyor must have.

There is potential vagueness there.  i.e. full report  - does that mean report on the whole property or full detailed report on the areas of concern.    They do appear to be concerned with the impact of the works on the whole structure.

I would go back to them and get confirmation that a structural engineers report covering the chimney stack and impact on the whole structure is what they are after rather than a structural engineers report on the whole property.

I thought the nil valuation was also unnecessary from the valuer as an estimate still could have been given but that's another debate all together

Nil valuations are typical when asking for further information on structural issues.   It's pretty much the norm in this scenario.

squarehead94

Can anyone else advise before I call tomorrow - if I get the structural report to them - and if works are required with estimates for repairs - will I be able to get a mortgage offer pending completion of works? My big worry is I pay for survey, pay for works carried out and then get knocked back anyway! Is this something that is usual?

simon_or

That'll depend on what the structural report says. If it identifies some major work required without which the property isn't acceptable security, then there won't be any mortgage offer forthcoming until the repair is made and the lender (valuer) can confirm the same. 

If it's something minor then the bank might issue an offer with a retention.

I remember one of the brokers sharing a Nationwide surveyor guide, that might help.

If your heart is really set on this property, then while all this is going on in the background, I would get my broker to put in another application with a different bank that uses a different surveyor group.

dunstonh

Can anyone else advise before I call tomorrow - if I get the structural report to them - and if works are required with estimates for repairs - will I be able to get a mortgage offer pending completion of works?

It will depend on the outcome of the report.  It will often require work to be completed before they release the money.  Or they will reduce the amount they will lend (a retention).

My big worry is I pay for survey, pay for works carried out and then get knocked back anyway! Is this something that is usual?

That is a possibility if you and the vendor cannot come to some agreement (should work be required to be carried out before they will lend).

Referring to what happened for us, if the vendor had not agreed to pay for the works to remedy the concerns highlighted in the structural engineer report, we would have withdrawn from the purchase.  We played poker with the estate agent/vendor and won.   If they refused, then we were prepared to walk away and cut our losses.  its just one of those things when buying properties with potential issues.

squarehead94

dunstonh said:

Can anyone else advise before I call tomorrow - if I get the structural report to them - and if works are required with estimates for repairs - will I be able to get a mortgage offer pending completion of works?

It will depend on the outcome of the report.  It will often require work to be completed before they release the money.  Or they will reduce the amount they will lend (a retention).

My big worry is I pay for survey, pay for works carried out and then get knocked back anyway! Is this something that is usual?

That is a possibility if you and the vendor cannot come to some agreement (should work be required to be carried out before they will lend).

Referring to what happened for us, if the vendor had not agreed to pay for the works to remedy the concerns highlighted in the structural engineer report, we would have withdrawn from the purchase.  We played poker with the estate agent/vendor and won.   If they refused, then we were prepared to walk away and cut our losses.  its just one of those things when buying properties with potential issues.

Can't really budge on the price unfortunately, the offer is a decent amount BMV (I suspect 10k or so) so it's kind of a take it or leave it offer really 
As I say I'm happy to pay for the targeted survey, and the structural engineer I've spoken to said it sounds like a common issue whereby an RSJ needs fitted. Already quoted by a builder for around 1k which again is satisfactory (they have said it may be cheaper depending how quickly they complete the work)

squarehead94

So an update, I raised the query as to why a complete structural survey is required and whether a targeted structural report would suffice, they advise me they have put this query to the valuer and will respond within 6 working days. Does this sound normal? Surely it's a decision for the underwriter to make? Just seems like I'm being passed from pillar to post and slowing this whole process down as much as possible. Been over a month now since offer accepted and valuation was done about 2 weeks ago.