Broadwater Cricketers Parade PCN - appeal?

penguinwaddles

Hello 👋  hoping for guidance please on whether this is worth appealing

I parked in Broadwater to pop to estate agent. Avoided parking in a bay with a reserved for x sign on the fence in front of a space (i’ve attached examples)but have received a PCN for ‘not displaying a valid permit’ so presumably those who have reserved bays get given permits.

Drove back down there to check signage and sign says do not park in yellow bays and mentions nothing about the signs on the fences that state ‘reserved for x’
The yellow paint on the bay I parked in is very feint and much of it has worn away, there is even white paint in some part of it.

Is it worth trying to appeal or does it sound like i am in the wrong and should have checked?

Fruitcake

Please tell us the name of the PPC (it looks like UKCPM, but it also looks like a BPA roundel on the very old sign), the date of the alleged event, the issue date of the NTK, and whether it contains the PoFA wording that means a keeper can be held liable.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP.

Failing that, appeal using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Send it unaltered from the keeper.

penguinwaddles

ps. i have requested a name change but the PCN is not addressed to me (i was not the driver nor the registered keeper so i won’t be identifiable to CPM. Thank you

penguinwaddles

Fruitcake said:

Please tell us the name of the PPC, the date of the alleged event, the issue date of the NTK, and whether it contains the PoFA wording that means a keeper can be held liable.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP.

Failing that, appeal using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Send it unaltered from the keeper.

Hi Fruitcake,
CPM
12.06
issue date says 13.06 but only received 21.06
Yes there is wording that says sch4 of POFA 2012 we will have the right to recover from the keeper

Unfortunately I have no idea who the landowner is.

re the template ‘ Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence’ but they have sent me photos and advised the allegation is not displaying a valid permit, and the last two sentences of the template are not valid, would i not be better off explaining the lack of paint issue and the apparent reliance on signs on fence that state reserved instead?

KeithP

According to the signs CPM are the ppc...

[click on the image for GSV]

This is @Coupon-mad's territory, and an aptly named Seagull Crescent. 

KeithP

katquinn82 said:

re the template ‘ Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence’ but they have sent me photos and advised the allegation is not displaying a valid permit, and the last two sentences of the template are not valid, would i not be better off explaining the lack of paint issue and the apparent reliance on signs on fence that state reserved instead?

One use of the template is to show the parking company that you are getting support from MSE forums.
Send the template unchanged.

Coupon-mad

katquinn82 said:

Fruitcake said:

Please tell us the name of the PPC, the date of the alleged event, the issue date of the NTK, and whether it contains the PoFA wording that means a keeper can be held liable.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP.

Failing that, appeal using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Send it unaltered from the keeper.

Hi Fruitcake,
CPM
12.06
issue date says 13.06 but only received 21.06
Yes there is wording that says sch4 of POFA 2012 we will have the right to recover from the keeper

Unfortunately I have no idea who the landowner is.

re the template ‘ Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence’ but they have sent me photos and advised the allegation is not displaying a valid permit, and the last two sentences of the template are not valid, would i not be better off explaining the lack of paint issue and the apparent reliance on signs on fence that state reserved instead?

Yes change the template to explain the above but you can't appeal if you aren't the keeper or driver.

Don't even use the template. Get the driver to appeal with those photos then repeat the same at IAS.

It is my localish area...

Why would a driver seek out a car park to park in Broadwater when all the roads around, including Broadwater Road and Broadwater Street West (where I assume the shop was) are free parking and you can't get a PCN on-street?

When I'm there I'd categorically never look for a car park.  It's asking for trouble.  Is the driver unaware of the scam of private parking firms? Lucky it was there and not next to Halfords where OPS run their notorious little trap.

penguinwaddles

I always park there when I go into Broadwater this is the first time I’ve ever had a ticket. The free parking in front of stores is always manic and was full. The
keeper is my partner who kindly (!) passes anything paperwork related to me so I’ll draft something and he will sign.
And yes partner unaware of private parking scams thinks any letter demanding £ is 100% legit 🙈
I’ve googled landowner and an article from 2019 suggests it is Jordan & Cook so I’ll call them tomorrow and see if they still are landowner and whether they can squash it, if I draft an appeal can I share it here before posting?

Thank you all for your replies and help 😊

penguinwaddles

Coupon-mad said:

katquinn82 said:

Fruitcake said:

Please tell us the name of the PPC, the date of the alleged event, the issue date of the NTK, and whether it contains the PoFA wording that means a keeper can be held liable.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP.

Failing that, appeal using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Send it unaltered from the keeper.

Hi Fruitcake,
CPM
12.06
issue date says 13.06 but only received 21.06
Yes there is wording that says sch4 of POFA 2012 we will have the right to recover from the keeper

Unfortunately I have no idea who the landowner is.

re the template ‘ Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence’ but they have sent me photos and advised the allegation is not displaying a valid permit, and the last two sentences of the template are not valid, would i not be better off explaining the lack of paint issue and the apparent reliance on signs on fence that state reserved instead?

Yes change the template to explain the above but you can't appeal if you aren't the keeper or driver.

Don't even use the template. Get the driver to appeal with those photos then repeat the same at IAS.

It is my localish area...

Why would a driver seek out a car park to park in Broadwater when all the roads around, including Broadwater Road and Broadwater Street West (where I assume the shop was) are free parking and you can't get a PCN on-street?

When I'm there I'd categorically never look for a car park.  It's asking for trouble.  Is the driver unaware of the scam of private parking firms? Lucky it was there and not next to Halfords where OPS run their notorious little trap.

Re PCN number: 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle and evidence of a clear breach of the parking terms.

I include photos of bays that are unclearly marked with very feint paint marking in both yellow and white, additionally I include photos of signs on fences in front of spaces that either state reserved or no parking and a photo of the particular space in contention with no reserved or no parking sign in situation.

If you wish to rely on paint markings to pursue PCN’s as oppose to reserved for/no parking signs on individual spaces it would be prudent for you to ensure that bays are clearly marked in their entirety in the relevant coloured paint.

Regards
Mr I’ve received a PCN unfairly

Coupon-mad

My goodness that is not safe; don't ever park there.  Go higher up near the green if you have to. Please, in future, make a point of avoiding private car parks like the plague; that is not where to park (and nor is the little road next to Halfords).

You don't need a car park in Broadwater even when it's busy.

Basically never pass a P sign where the car park is run by any private operator, except for Supermarket car parks where you have no choice, if shopping.

Just draft an appeal as admitted driver saying:

The lines are white and the driver will show this photo evidence to the kangaroo court of IAS, and will also save the photos for a real Judge, if the IAS proves as useless as MSE forum posters say it is.  Worthing court Judges are not daft as UKCPM well know to their cost, so the PCN may as well be cancelled now to avoid a farcical IAS experience and wasted fee costs for UKCPM against a person who will not be paying and will use Coupon-mad as a lay representative in court, if the case is pursued.  Don't add the fake £70 fee either that the DLUHC is surely about to ban (again).  Get lost.


(use the above as your appeal. In full. I'm serious).

penguinwaddles

Coupon-mad said:

My goodness that is not safe; don't ever park there.  Go higher up near the green if you have to. Please, in future, make a point of avoiding private car parks like the plague; that is not where to park (and nor is the little road next to Halfords).

You don't need a car park in Broadwater even when it's busy.

Basically never pass a P sign where the car park is run by any private operator, except for Supermarket car parks where you have no choice, if shopping.

Just draft an appeal as admitted driver saying:

The lines are white and the driver will show this photo evidence to the kangaroo court of IAS, and will also save the photos for a real Judge, if the IAS proves as useless as MSE forum posters say it is.  Worthing court Judges are not daft as UKCPM well know to their cost, so the PCN may as well be cancelled now to avoid a farcical IAS experience and wasted fee costs for UKCPM against a person who will not be paying and will use Coupon-mad as a lay representative in court, if the case is pursued.  Don't add the fake £70 fee either that the DLUHC is surely about to ban (again).  Get lost.


(use the above as your appeal. In full. I'm serious).

I’m not sure i can write that 🤣🤣🤣 made me chuckle
I’m not sure it can be argued the lines are white either, obviously i would argue so but they would be concentrating their photographic evidence on yellow bits of paint! The paint is so worn any reasonable person would assume it meant nothing or at least was a bay in a state of confusion regarding its identity

I will re-draft the appeal tomorrow and try and incorporate some of your wording into it and drop the template wording re. the driver and come up with an effort that incorporates your points too.

thank you