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Very short term rental agreement

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  • _Penny_Dreadful
    _Penny_Dreadful Posts: 1,467 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 26 June 2023 at 11:45PM
    TisMeBill said:
    TisMeBill said:
    A rolling 7 day AST is entirely legal.  (or 3day or 2 day) Tenants would be daft to agree - they've got more security currently. (England).

    Done ANY training in how to be a landlord? 

    The tenants currently have to vacate the property on June 30th when their contract ends (they have also had an S21 confirming this), they have asked us if they can stay longer until the property sale is ready to complete. So I don't understand why they would be DAFT to agree to something they have requested! 
    Nope.  An s21 notice (even if valid, many are not) does NOT end tenancy NOR COMPEL tenant to leave,  They have every right to stay on, don't need your permission, as confirmed in Thatcher's (not a fan)  1988 Housing Act.

    If you then take s21 to court (as you have every right), if tenants defend (as they have every right courtesy Thatcher) it will probably take about 4 months before bailiffs/hceo execute Possession order.

    Someone's daft.... dunno whom...

    Done any training in how to be a landlord, please? I ask as when i started in 2000 I thought i knew what i was doing.  Wrong! Painful, expensive, complex, long-drawn-out mistakes.  Oh my stupidity, oh the Hubris!

    Artful: landlord since 2000.  Still learning, still making mistakes.

    No not done any training as a landlord, but we were very careful who we have as tenants. You don’t seem to understand the situation, there is no animosity or problem of any sort between us and our tenants. They are decent people and we are decent people, we told them a year ago we would be selling the house, they had a new rental lined up, but it has fallen thru’.  So they have asked us as a favour to them to let them stay a few more weeks, there is not, nor will there be any possibility of them attempting to remain in the property beyond the date we agree with them. I don’t know how you treat your tenants and what your relationship with them is, but we have found if you treat people fairly, they will be fair with you.








    It is you who does not understand the situation.  The fixed term ending does not mean the tenants have to vacate the property 30th June.  Should they remain in occupation a periodic tenancy, either statutory or contractual, will automatically start 1st July so there is no need for you to footer around with very short fixed term contracts because there will already be a perfectly valid tenancy agreement allowing them to remain in the property.

    Secondly, a Section 21 notice does not end a tenancy, that can only be done by the tenants serving their own notice or a court.  There is quite literally nothing you can do to force the tenants to leave on 30th June.  You will not be doing the tenants a favour by allowing them to remain in occupation because it is their legal right to remain in occupation.
  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 15,701 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 26 June 2023 at 4:17PM
    TisMeBill said:
    TisMeBill said:
    A rolling 7 day AST is entirely legal.  (or 3day or 2 day) Tenants would be daft to agree - they've got more security currently. (England).

    Done ANY training in how to be a landlord? 

    The tenants currently have to vacate the property on June 30th when their contract ends (they have also had an S21 confirming this), they have asked us if they can stay longer until the property sale is ready to complete. So I don't understand why they would be DAFT to agree to something they have requested! 
    Nope.  An s21 notice (even if valid, many are not) does NOT end tenancy NOR COMPEL tenant to leave,  They have every right to stay on, don't need your permission, as confirmed in Thatcher's (not a fan)  1988 Housing Act.

    If you then take s21 to court (as you have every right), if tenants defend (as they have every right courtesy Thatcher) it will probably take about 4 months before bailiffs/hceo execute Possession order.

    Someone's daft.... dunno whom...

    Done any training in how to be a landlord, please? I ask as when i started in 2000 I thought i knew what i was doing.  Wrong! Painful, expensive, complex, long-drawn-out mistakes.  Oh my stupidity, oh the Hubris!

    Artful: landlord since 2000.  Still learning, still making mistakes.

    No not done any training as a landlord, but we were very careful who we have as tenants. You don’t seem to understand the situation, there is no animosity or problem of any sort between us and our tenants. They are decent people and we are decent people, we told them a year ago we would be selling the house, they had a new rental lined up, but it has fallen thru’.  So they have asked us as a favour to them to let them stay a few more weeks, there is not, nor will there be any possibility of them attempting to remain in the property beyond the date we agree with them. I don’t know how you treat your tenants and what your relationship with them is, but we have found if you treat people fairly, they will be fair with you.


    (Assuming this is England...).  Thank you for your kind words. Delighted to hear you have great tenants.

    I am of the view that (every)one should treat others decently – in tenancies, contracts, politics, when bumping into each other… any other relationship – as

    a) that's the right thing to do &

    b) there’s just a chance they might treat you decently back (perhaps in consequence of being treated decently).

    - sadly this has not always been my experience with all my tenants. But hey, keep smiling!

    I’ve been trying to point out to you that you are granting your esteemed tenants extra rights they don;t currently have (your shout… feel free) by granting a new tenancy. Which might make your sale fall through (they for whatever reason decide to stay – maybe for another 4 months say, or even longer …).

    May I humbly suggest two other options – easier, more flexible, less paperwork, safer IMHO… Remember the current tenancy continues as periodic…


    i) Don’t change any paperwork or produce any new paperwork: Tenants stay until they are ready & happy to go: Then simply accept (formal, written) short term notice to quit from them (eg at 18:45 this evening). A landlord is at liberty to accept this & if tenants leave all sorted.. See


    Hackney LBC v Snowden [2001] ...


    Open to landlord and tenant to agree to treat NTQ as valid and thereby waive

    the requirement of four weeks’ notice.


    - but only appropriate for periodic tenancies.


    ii) Don;t change any paperwork or produce any new paperwork: Tenants stay until they are ready & happy to go: Then simply both sign a “deed of surrender” to end tenancy (normal advice to landlords is to do so outside front door after they’ve cleared the place & returned keys etc). This has the added advantage of being usable during any fixed term also. Tenancy ends then & there. Exemplar available from your landlord association amongst other sources.


    But hey, your shout, your risks, your exposures, your money.


    Might I also suggest a little education?? Years ago someone said to me of education, “If you think education is expensive, try ignorance”.


    Best regards


    ** NB When I was wanting to sell a property (3 times in the last 4 years) I ..

    - had a calm polite chat with them explaining what I wanted to do (old age and ill health meaning I needed to slowly divest) – sell. But nothing sudden. (As they were all “good” tenants) I offered excellent references and to be flexible on leaving dates (either very rapid, quick or slow…) to suit what they wanted. Explained notices would be served, but I firmly intended to avoid the court route.


    All three worked out well. One couple are still in touch, most recently me providing them with another reference.  Don't ask me about CGT (needs declaring AND PAYING within 60 days of sale) - I'll start crying....


    Best wishes to anyone who read this far...


  • GrumpyDil
    GrumpyDil Posts: 2,039 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    As everyone says just be aware of what can happen. We had a friend staying in our rental which we'd agreed because she had just gone through a messy break up.

    She had agreed to move out two weeks before our sale completed which was when we wanted to exchange. We ended up exchanging and completing on the same day because she didn't move out until the dy before. 
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