Ageism in comping?

demon_princezz

I don't want to say too much in case the organisers lurk here and by identifying myself I get blacklisted from future comps... but I've been thinking about this for a while -

I recently entered a radio comp where you have to go on air.  The entry required me to write something and I received a call from the station who seemingly "vetted" me. They asked me to repeat what I had written and after a bit of a chat I was told "you tell the story so well" and that I needed to be by my phone the following day during a specific time as a producer *may* ring me to go on air. I was then asked how old I was and where I lived. I answered truthfully.

I didn't get a call back the following day - which is fair enough if there was a better entrant - but ever since I've had this niggling feeling that they scrapped me because I'm too old. The target demographic for this radio station is 15-34 years old and it is a "young station" - however I'm around 10 years older than its upper target age and I don't fit the image.

I just don't know why they would ask my age otherwise... it wasn't asked on the entry form, nor was it relevant to the competition - and I don't think you can tell how old I am by the sound of my voice. Unless they're trying to weed out compers from actual listeners and they're assuming anyone over 40 can't possibly be listening to their station... in which case they'd be wrong as I actually do listen to that station...

Am I thinking too much into this, or could there possibly be some discrimination going on here? Opinions welcome.

mjm3346

Think far too much into it. Possibly you needed to be at least 18 to take part so they were just checking - had a winning call from ITV where they wanted to confirm age for that reason. It usually make no difference to the promoter (certainly on bigger competitions) who is selected as a winner and there is no point in fiddling it. (not counting some gleam/blogger competitions)

demon_princezz

mjm3346 said:

Think far too much into it. Possibly you needed to be at least 18 to take part so they were just checking - had a winning call from ITV where they wanted to confirm age for that reason. It usually make no difference to the promoter (certainly on bigger competitions) who is selected as a winner and there is no point in fiddling it. (not counting some gleam/blogger competitions)

Possibly, but if that were the case wouldn’t the question be “can you confirm you are over 18?” rather than “how old are you?”. The story I told in my entry involved me and my husband, so pretty obvious I’m over 18…

I can see why from their point of view as a young 15-34 radio station, they wouldn’t want a 60-year-old coming on air and winning a competition as they’re not likely a genuine listener. Given it was an “effort” comp where they judge the entry and use their discretion to choose a winner based on their own criteria, it’s plausible that age is part of that criteria. Not that they’d ever admit to it of course…

My cynicism comes from previous experience where I worked for a company that ran competitions. I was responsible for picking a winner in an “effort” competition and judged one to be the best entry. The prize included travel expenses, which were covered by the company. When the winner later submitted their travel receipts, I was disciplined because the winner lived in Jersey and they (plus family) had to fly to London, which cost considerably more (just over £1k) than a train ticket from within the UK. I was told I should have picked a winner who lived closer as it would have been cheaper for them.

This wasn’t a small company, it’s a household name. Competition organisers can do what they like so long as no one finds out about it…

Ms_Dee

demon_princezz said:

mjm3346 said:

Think far too much into it. Possibly you needed to be at least 18 to take part so they were just checking - had a winning call from ITV where they wanted to confirm age for that reason. It usually make no difference to the promoter (certainly on bigger competitions) who is selected as a winner and there is no point in fiddling it. (not counting some gleam/blogger competitions)

Possibly, but if that were the case wouldn’t the question be “can you confirm you are over 18?” rather than “how old are you?”. The story I told in my entry involved me and my husband, so pretty obvious I’m over 18…

I can see why from their point of view as a young 15-34 radio station, they wouldn’t want a 60-year-old coming on air and winning a competition as they’re not likely a genuine listener. Given it was an “effort” comp where they judge the entry and use their discretion to choose a winner based on their own criteria, it’s plausible that age is part of that criteria. Not that they’d ever admit to it of course…

My cynicism comes from previous experience where I worked for a company that ran competitions. I was responsible for picking a winner in an “effort” competition and judged one to be the best entry. The prize included travel expenses, which were covered by the company. When the winner later submitted their travel receipts, I was disciplined because the winner lived in Jersey and they (plus family) had to fly to London, which cost considerably more (just over £1k) than a train ticket from within the UK. I was told I should have picked a winner who lived closer as it would have been cheaper for them.

This wasn’t a small company, it’s a household name. Competition organisers can do what they like so long as no one finds out about it…

I have to agree with @mjm3346 on this one, if they asked specifically if you were older than 18, of course you would say yes. Asking your age would mean it was likely true or the date of birth. You could have made up the story, whether it is a husband or not. Also in certain places you can marry with permission at 16.
Just because the company you worked for were badly run (unless they were joking or unless it was suppose to be entrants from Mainland UK) it doesn't mean they all are.

Radio stations and TV shows often take a few stories and entries, ready to call. This is incase others don't answer or get back in touch etc. That is usual part of many processes.

Any competitions or advertising you honestly think are unfairly run or organised can be reported to the ASA but for this particular competition, I don't think it was personal or ageist. 

mjm3346

Generally it makes no difference who a winner is (free or paid entry/old/young/etc) and many use systems operated by third parties - competitions for the UK do not include Jersey unless they specifically say so. Effort competitions have special rules about judging/winner selection.
It is simply not worth choosing a particular winner instead of a random one

demon_princezz

Ms_Dee said:

I have to agree with @mjm3346 on this one, if they asked specifically if you were older than 18, of course you would say yes. Asking your age would mean it was likely true or the date of birth. You could have made up the story, whether it is a husband or not. Also in certain places you can marry with permission at 16.
Just because the company you worked for were badly run (unless they were joking or unless it was suppose to be entrants from Mainland UK) it doesn't mean they all are.

Radio stations and TV shows often take a few stories and entries, ready to call. This is incase others don't answer or get back in touch etc. That is usual part of many processes.

Any competitions or advertising you honestly think are unfairly run or organised can be reported to the ASA but for this particular competition, I don't think it was personal or ageist. 

I guess if I was going to concoct a story with a fake husband, I’d have the forethought to come up with a fake age too to really sell it! 😜

I like the optimism though that everyone is legit now, despite my previous experience to the contrary 🙂

Blulu

Was it a random draw though? It sounds more like it was a judged entry. If the T&C state winner randomly selected, then I would agree that it's probably unlikely to be agism. However, if it is a judged competition, then, well, I can't say that I think it is agism but it would make it more feasible. If they are choosing a winner, they might go for one that they think has more appeal to their listeners.

Having said that, even under those circumstances, I'm not sure if you have enough information to decide that it is agism. I think you would need to monitor lots of their winners, from similar competitions and see if you can spot a pattern.

It's an interesting discussion.

Blu XXX

mjm3346

the actual rules re judged competitions

When is an independent judge necessary for a competition?

If the selection of a winning entry is open to subjective interpretation, there should always be an independent judge (rule 8.26). If there is only one judge, they need to be independent. Where there is a panel this should include at least one independent member.

The judge or panel member must be demonstrably independent, especially from the competition’s promoters and intermediaries and from the pool of entrants from which the eventual winner is picked.

Those appointed to act as judges should be competent to judge the competition and their full names must be made available on request. Paying a fee to someone to act as an independent judge would not in itself be considered to compromise their independence.

The ASA ruled that a promotion was unfairly administered and breached the Code where the promoter did not provide details of the independent panel of judges

demon_princezz

Blulu said:

Was it a random draw though? It sounds more like it was a judged entry. If the T&C state winner randomly selected, then I would agree that it's probably unlikely to be agism. However, if it is a judged competition, then, well, I can't say that I think it is agism but it would make it more feasible. If they are choosing a winner, they might go for one that they think has more appeal to their listeners.

Having said that, even under those circumstances, I'm not sure if you have enough information to decide that it is agism. I think you would need to monitor lots of their winners, from similar competitions and see if you can spot a pattern.

It's an interesting discussion.

Blu XXX

No it wasn’t a random draw - it was a judged entry. 

I’ve just gone back to the T&Cs and found the pertinent points: It states no explicit reference to an age restriction, other than if you’re under 18 the prize would be sent to parent/guardian -  so there was no need to ask my age. 

It says entries will be judged by the production team and an independent judge - so while on paper an independent judge may have agreed my entry was good enough to be shortlisted, I imagine that would have been the end of their involvement as it then gets handed over to the production team who called to vet me further and see if I was suitable to be brought to air - which is their prerogative and nothing to do with the quality of the entry. And also happens to be when they ask how old the entrant is.

The terms also state the radio station “reserve the right to disqualify any entrant or winner who does not comply with any of the eligibility criteria”. Who’s to say one of its internal criteria isn’t that the winner has to be within the target demographic age group? Especially if that winner is expected to take part in publicity with their picture on the station’s website/social media. It’s not a good look for a young 15-34 station to have a picture of an “old” person winning who’s unlikely to be a genuine listener…

An age restriction criteria used internally to fit the target audience makes logical sense to me 🤷🏼‍♀️

mjm3346

There are broadcasting guideline about "minors" and permission would be needed by a parent/guardian who could refuse - Eligibility criteria should be as per the T&Cs. Who knows how far down the shortlist your entry was other than it was not at the top.
A picture of an "old" person on the website is extremely unlikely to stop anyone listening to a station or bother the station in the slightest - most listeners do not use station websites and many of those who do use them for program/presenter information and not winners galleries (excluding compers).

Blulu

I don’t think this is about the rules. If it is a judged entry, then of course there is scope for prejudice to play a part. I am not saying that I would assume it happened that way, but I get where the OP is coming from. It could be something that wasn’t explicitly discussed, just a sense of them having a ‘young’ audience and therefore having a bias towards a winner that they think their audience would relate to.

Having said that, it also is very possible that they just legitimately preferred someone else’s entry, so while I wouldn’t say you are overthinking it to raise the question, I don’t think you have enough evidence to decide against them.

Blu XXX