Classic Car

Nebulous2

EssexExile said:

Those of us over a certain age remember that these cars were pretty awful when they came out of the factory, the years haven't really improved them.

I may have mis-understood your opening post but the Triumph Stag didn't have a Rover V8 engine. Well, it didn't come out of the factory with one but many have one now!

I came slightly later than those cars, and never got round to a soft-top, but had a variety of misbegotten BL cars. At one time I had 3 Allegros in a mostly successful attempt to keep 1 on the road. 

I did have a 1972 Rover 2000 TC, which I remember as a class above most of my other self - maintained vehicles, which may be why the 3500 version appeals. 

I meant a Triumph Stag, or something with a Rover 3500 engine, not the two combined. My understanding is that the original engine had issues and a lot of them were adapted to take a Rover 3.5.

A couple of years ago I was at a car show with good turnout of Stags and a guy I was speaking to said that original engines were readily available and a lot of the cars were being converted back. 

Goudy

I bought a half decent Mk3 Triumph GT6 off my cousin 20 odd years ago.
I knew is was running well and on the road if a little shabby here and there.
So just thought it needed a bit of cosmetics to bring it up to scratch, how wrong I was!

Every attempt at any work just snowballed. 
You just can't repair a wing or panel and paint that as it will never match the rest of the 40 odd year old paintwork. Plus, then you start picking away at that blister of rust, it turns into a mountain.
But you do anyway and find out the hard way you've probably wasted your time and money.

Now you think it'll have a respray so you dig in for the long haul.
Then all the chrome looks bad, so you start rechroming or buy new bits.

You start inside, the door cards and carpet are frayed and peeling so you replace.
Now seats, dash and headlining let it all down and it still looks sad, so you tackle them.

You get it all back together, wiping the sweat from your forehead counting a blessing you didn't really have to touch the engine or gearbox or something more serious, when one or more of those now does, it's a kick in the teeth. 

You could of course not bother with some of the things and just run it as an everyday classic, but you get bitten.
You must improve it, make it run better, handle better, sort the dent/scratch and so on but doing it piecemeal really costs as all your mistakes really cost.

Years later I came across a Vitesse 6 and thought I'd have a go at that as it wasn't a million miles away from the GT6.
Again it was an on the road car just a little shabby.

This time I stripped the thing right down and started from scratch from the off.
Car turned out beautiful, far better then the GT6 and I reckon it cost me half of what I put into the GT6 just by realising where to start.
Was I happy, not really as I could have spent far less on a car to start with as I was going to strip it bare anyway.

Like I wrote, double, triple, quadruple what you think you'd spend as once you're into it, that's what it'll all cost.
Especially cars of this sort of era, they really are cans of (tin) worms and you don't really know until you start to open them up.
Forget the idea it's just a used car, it isn't.

Of course you could buy one already done and just tickle it along while you own it.
You might think it is expensive to buy, but someone has taken the hit already and if you buy the right one, restored properly, it's going to save you massively in the long run. 

Nebulous2

Goudy said:

I bought a half decent Mk3 Triumph GT6 off my cousin 20 odd years ago.
I knew is was running well and on the road if a little shabby here and there.
So just thought it needed a bit of cosmetics to bring it up to scratch, how wrong I was!

Every attempt at any work just snowballed. 
You just can't repair a wing or panel and paint that as it will never match the rest of the 40 odd year old paintwork. Plus, then you start picking away at that blister of rust, it turns into a mountain.
But you do anyway and find out the hard way you've probably wasted your time and money.

Now you think it'll have a respray so you dig in for the long haul.
Then all the chrome looks bad, so you start rechroming or buy new bits.

You start inside, the door cards and carpet are frayed and peeling so you replace.
Now seats, dash and headlining let it all down and it still looks sad, so you tackle them.

You get it all back together, wiping the sweat from your forehead counting a blessing you didn't really have to touch the engine or gearbox or something more serious, when one or more of those now does, it's a kick in the teeth. 

You could of course not bother with some of the things and just run it as an everyday classic, but you get bitten.
You must improve it, make it run better, handle better, sort the dent/scratch and so on but doing it piecemeal really costs as all your mistakes really cost.

Years later I came across a Vitesse 6 and thought I'd have a go at that as it wasn't a million miles away from the GT6.
Again it was an on the road car just a little shabby.

This time I stripped the thing right down and started from scratch from the off.
Car turned out beautiful, far better then the GT6 and I reckon it cost me half of what I put into the GT6 just by realising where to start.
Was I happy, not really as I could have spent far less on a car to start with as I was going to strip it bare anyway.

Like I wrote, double, triple, quadruple what you think you'd spend as once you're into it, that's what it'll all cost.
Especially cars of this sort of era, they really are cans of (tin) worms and you don't really know until you start to open them up.
Forget the idea it's just a used car, it isn't.

Of course you could buy one already done and just tickle it along while you own it.
You might think it is expensive to buy, but someone has taken the hit already and if you buy the right one, restored properly, it's going to save you massively in the long run. 

Thanks, that may be the kind of story I need to hear.

Looking at Ebay there's a TR6 listed for sale at Bonhams for £45k - which claims it has been subject to a £122k restoration in the last four years. 

I've previously seen a Rover with the same level of restoration / recent costs going for £12k. 

In reality I'm not obsessive enough to create / buy / pay for / look after a concours level car. 

Something I can potter about in on a nice day, take to local shows, go occasional club runs with owners of similar cars, and spend a bit of time fettling at my leisure is where I'm aiming at. 

 

Goudy

Concours is another level, just ending up with a car that looks like a car and drives ok from this sort of era is hard enough.

You nailed where to start in your last line.
Check the owners clubs.
You'll learn more from them than anyone else and another member might even turn up a suitable car.

It wasn't my intention to put you off, just to open your eyes a little.
There tends to be a lot of people with rose tinted spectacles out buying classic cars thinking they are all like second hand cars that try to relive their youth and it just isn't.

This sort of stuff is 50 or 60 years old and their design, most of the parts used and how they were built is certainly a lot older.

Herzlos

What about a kit car? You're going to have to more or less rebuild something from the 60/70's from the frame up anyway, and at least it'll mostly have new parts and be more modern to drive.

I think a lot of them use Ford engines now, but you could probably stick a Rover V8 in some of them if you really wanted.

There's plenty of half-finished kit cars available pretty cheap, but you'll almost certainly need a trailer to get them home. Then you can swear at it to your hearts content and sell it on as a half finished kit car a few years later for more or less what you paid for it!

Goudy

If you want Rover V8 power.
Every part still available cheaply.
Lots of specialist suppliers.
Not bothered if it looks a bit rough (maybe looks better a bit rough).
Knock the dents out with a hammer and paint with a yard brush.

What about a older V8 Land Rover Defender?
Tarty ones make good money but there are plenty of half decent trucks at reasonable money.

caprikid1

In my household we have several classic cars from a variety of Era and manufactures.

South Norfolk Classics is a great place to look at and sell large volumes of great cars.

In terms of cars that appreciate (May cover their costs) Anything you lusted after as a child ideally with some sporting success. Look at the price of escorts and fast Jap AWD cars as examples. No one lusted after an Austin A30 and prices reflect that (Though cute as they are).

A great option would be a top notch MX5 Mk1 fabulous cars that just outperform an English sports car in virtually every way.

Avoid old Ford's they are too expensive, too rusty with poor spares support.

MG's are not a bad shout or old Mini's (I am at work in a Mini today. might make it home !).

facade

I'm currently watching a drama series featuring a red Honda S800, and I rather fancy one. Last time I saw one for sale it was for reasonable money. They seem to have another zero on the end of the price now.....

Grumpy_chap

Owning a classic car is a labour of love.
I would have thought that means choosing that car that gets your pulse racing and has some meaning to yourself.  It really needs to be something that excites your soul.
In my case that would either be an Allegro VdP (my first car was an Allegro and the VdP was the most desireable) or a Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 litre (everyone wanted one).
Just going "Oh, I fancy a classic car, what shall I get?" wouldn't generate the passion in the same way as a car that has a personal meaning.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Do make sure to drive the thing if you do get one; classic cars tend to suffer far more by not moving than they do clocking up the miles.  Electronic ignition is a must these days too, as good quality coils, condensers and points are very difficult to come by new.  Beware of anything describing itself as 'New Old Stock', too, some people buy old Lucas boxes and put newly made pattern part rubbish in them.  

I haven't got a classic car at present.  I have had things that would be considered classic now, but were just old bangers when I owned them.  Would I be tempted to try and relive a youth I couldn't have afforded at the time by getting an Escort Cabriolet?  Of course.