Sainsburys Euro Car Parks PCN help

amanwithaplan

Hello

I've recently been sent a PCN from ECP for 'Parking longer than the maximum period allowed'. I think I know what I did wrong/didn't understand properly. I actually paid for two separate 2hr period's of parking without leaving the car park, and I suspect that is against their terms now thinking about it (although not had chance to go back and check the sign yet). Anyway I suspect I can't contest this if this is their rules - I just didn't realise on the day, you live and learn.

Anyway my car is a lease, and therefore I have a 'Notice to Hirer' which has obviously took longer than 14 days to reach me as they had to go through my lease provider to get my details.

I've read some of the FAQ threads and some of the stuff about the POFA legislation, and someone said on one thread that they had never known a parking firm to ever follow the rules when serving a notice to hirer before. So I want to understand if in my situation, they have done everything to the rule or not.

Not the best at reading legal text, but does POFA say that along with my NTH, they should have sent me the other documents listed like a statement from hire firm, copy of my lease agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by myself?

I haven't received any of these - literally just the Notice to hirer sheet in an envelope.

Can anyone help and give me further advice?

Thanks in advance

KeithP

amanwithaplan said:

Can anyone help and give me further advice?

Yes, read the opening post of the NEWBIES thread.

Towards the bottom of that post you will see links to three template appeals especially for hire vehicles.
Pick the appropriate one and win this easily.

Coupon-mad

Easy to win!  NTH cases are impossible to lose.

Just DON'T add words that imply who was driving.  Nothing about 'paying for 2 hours' or who paid.

amanwithaplan

Thanks.

I read this on the POFA site:

14(b)(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

Doesn't look like they did the bit in bold and send me these extra docs. Is this why this is an easy to win case? Is this my best defence? I have seen a template letter about this somewhere will find it.

Thanks

KeithP

amanwithaplan said:

Thanks.

I read this on the POFA site:

14(b)(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

Doesn't look like they did the bit in bold and send me these extra docs. Is this why this is an easy to win case? Is this my best defence? I have seen a template letter about this somewhere will find it.

Thanks

That's right and you'll find the template that spells that out where I said.

Your next post - possibly on Monday morning - will be telling us about your win. 

B789

amanwithaplan said:

Thanks.

I read this on the POFA site:

14(b)(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

Doesn't look like they did the bit in bold and send me these extra docs. Is this why this is an easy to win case? Is this my best defence? I have seen a template letter about this somewhere will find it.

Thanks

It's easy to win as long as you don't give away the identity of the driver. Because they have failed to adhere to the PoFA requirements, they cannot transfer liability to the keeper/hirer of the vehicle. As they don't know the identity of the driver, unless you blab it by saying stuff like "I parked..." or "I drove... or even "I paid...", then they have nowhere else to go as you, the hirer are under no legal obligation to reveal the identity of the driver and they are not allowed to assume anything.

So, just do as advised and send the Edna Basher template appeal in the Newbies/FAQ thread, nothing more, nothing less. You are appealing as the hirer, NOT the driver.

amanwithaplan

KeithP said:

amanwithaplan said:

Thanks.

I read this on the POFA site:

14(b)(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

Doesn't look like they did the bit in bold and send me these extra docs. Is this why this is an easy to win case? Is this my best defence? I have seen a template letter about this somewhere will find it.

Thanks

That's right and you'll find the template that spells that out where I said.

Your next post - possibly on Monday morning - will be telling us about your win. 

Is that the edna basher template to Highview parking?

So should I literally just send that now (obv swapping the name of the parking firm) - I've read about waiting 21 days from a certain date but I don't understand that so I don't know if I should be waiting? I don't want to mess my chances up.

Or do I literally just appeal right now with that edna basher template?

Thanks very much!

KeithP

B789 said: 

So, just do as advised and send the blue template appeal...

No, not the blue template appeal, but one of Edna Basher's bespoke appeals towards the bottom of the opening post of the NEWBIES thread.  

KeithP

amanwithaplan said:

KeithP said:

amanwithaplan said:

Thanks.

I read this on the POFA site:

14(b)(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

Doesn't look like they did the bit in bold and send me these extra docs. Is this why this is an easy to win case? Is this my best defence? I have seen a template letter about this somewhere will find it.

Thanks

That's right and you'll find the template that spells that out where I said.

Your next post - possibly on Monday morning - will be telling us about your win. 

Is that the edna basher template to Highview parking?

So should I literally just send that now (obv swapping the name of the parking firm) - I've read about waiting 21 days from a certain date but I don't understand that so I don't know if I should be waiting? I don't want to mess my chances up.

Or do I literally just appeal right now with that edna basher template?

Thanks very much!

Yes that's the one. Note that Highview are mentioned at least three times there - change them all.

You already have a Notice to Hirer. Send that appeal when you like.

amanwithaplan

Thanks very much!

amanwithaplan

So they have come back to me and rejected my appeal after me sending the edna basher template.

Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons: 

• The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) – cameras capture an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay. 

• Parking at the above site is limited to 120 minutes. 

• On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure that your vehicle has been correctly parked. 

• Your vehicle was parked longer than 120 minutes, therefore the notice was issued correctly and remains payable. 

• The Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) does not alter the principle of driver liability. What it does do, is to allow proceedings against the registered keeper for unpaid parking charges when the landowner or their agent, the parking operator does not know who the driver was at the time. 

• The creditor/operator must follow the procedures set out in POFA Schedule 4 to achieve the benefits of keeper liability 

• Euro Car Parks is a member of the BPA which is an Accredited Trade Association with the DVLA and has an approved Code of Practice. 

• Please be advised that there are a number of signs around the car park indicating the restrictions of the site directly complying with the BP. 

• Please be advised that we strictly adhere to the BPA Code of Practice – where as a company we have to have all necessary documents in place. Therefore if you decide to process our rejection through POPLA certain extracts of these documents will be made available 

• We note that in your letter you state that the parking charge notice (PCN) is not enforceable as you have currently not entered into a ‘contract’ with Euro Car Parks. I would respectfully remind that contract law applies in this instance. 

• The car park is private property and signage on entrance and within the private car park clearly set out the rules and regulations of the car park and tariffs (if applicable). By entering the car park, parking and leaving the vehicle the driver has accepted the ‘contract’ and therefore if the driver fail to comply with the terms and conditions a parking charge notice will be correctly issued. 

• On private land, and this includes private land owned by public bodies, it is the driver who is liable any charges arising from a trespass or for not complying with the rules for parking, which in most cases is simply a breach of contract, and it is the driver who is trespassing or breaches the contract. 

Please make payment of the discounted amount of £50.00 by visiting our website at www.eurocarparks.com or use the automated telephone service 0203 553 4559. Alternatively make your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN number on the reverse of the cheque.This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to £85.00 and this may also result in the notice being passed to a third party with further charges applicable. 

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. 

You can make an appeal to the Independent Appeals Service, POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) using the unique POPLA Reference code provided above. Please note, should you decide to appeal to POPLA, or if you appeal to POPLA and your appeal is subsequently rejected, the option to pay a discounted amount will NO longer be available and the FULL AMOUNT of the PCN will become due. 

Please note - if the ticket was issued in SCOTLAND and or NORTHERN IRELAND, ONLY “THE DRIVER” can appeal to POPLA. 

If you/the driver decides to appeal to POPLA, you will need to visit the website, www.popla.co.uk, where further details of how to appeal (either online or by downloading the relevant forms) can be found. If the driver is unable to access the website, please email us on [email protected] for further information on how to obtain the forms. Please ensure that the POPLA Reference Number as noted above is quoted on all correspondence to POPLA. The driver has 28 days from the date of this letter to submit an appeal to POPLA. If the driver appeals to POPLA, we will suspend recovery activity on the PCN. 

Appeals may NOT be accepted if payment is made against the Parking Charge Notice, including any appeals logged via POPLA, if applicable. 

If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you. 

By law we are also required to inform you that the Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution services. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above. 
Yours sincerely 

Not sure what to do now - should I go ahead and appeal through POPLA? What should I say here? Send them the same edna basher template or do I need to elaborate more in any way?

Thanks nice people