Front Porch

Yazmina

My home is 80m2, 1970s.  We'd like to build a small (c. 6m2) porch at the front. There are several of the same on my road. Whose permission do we need?

I've spoken to an architect who says that the porch is a permitted development so no permissions needed.

The water company said their pipes stop two doors away, so even though my waste water must be going somewhere it's not showing up on their map.

The drainage survey done when we bought the house says that we are served by this company. 

Next door has a porch and she said no permissions are needed due to the size of the porch. 

The council building control were not interested. 

I think I've exhausted all avenues, but the builder thinks we need a build over agreement from somewhere. Is there somewhere else I should look? 

Thank you. 

serpico100

A porch is only permitted development if the floor area (measured externally) is under 3 square metres. As yours is over that then planning consent will be required

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/porches/Porches.pdf

Yazmina

serpico100 said:

A porch is only permitted development if the floor area (measured externally) is under 3 square metres. As yours is over that then planning consent will be required

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/porches/Porches.pdf

Right that's clarified things. The porch is an extension of existing storage, originally used for coal. If the exisiting storage is around 3m2, then the extension will only be 3m2, so permission won't be needed. I think. 👍🏾

Section62

Yazmina said:

serpico100 said:

A porch is only permitted development if the floor area (measured externally) is under 3 square metres. As yours is over that then planning consent will be required

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/porches/Porches.pdf

Right that's clarified things. The porch is an extension of existing storage, originally used for coal. If the exisiting storage is around 3m2, then the extension will only be 3m2, so permission won't be needed. I think. 👍🏾

The 3m2 rule is just one of the rules though.  The porch would also have to be less than 3m high and more than 2m from any road, measured from the nearest point (i.e. including soffits and gutters).

The property also has to have the permitted development rights in the first place, so only houses, not flats or maisonettes etc.  Also that permitted development rights haven't been removed by an Article 4 Direction.

The exact nature of the existing storage will also affect whether or not you'd be able to add another 3m2.  It would have to form part of the original dwelling as built and not be an outbuilding or later addition.

If the storage area is going to be combined into the porch so the total is 6m2 then it would probably be wise to check with the planners that they agree permitted development applies.  There are grey areas in the PD rules and when it comes to porches the general idea is the addition of the porch onto a house.  If what you are doing amounts to adding a porch onto a porch then it is possible the planners will say it isn't PD.

Yazmina

It was the architect who twice confirmed it's a permitted development.  He's familiar with our house as he did extension plans for the previous owner.  These drawings didn't include a porch though.

cerebus

Op - can we have a drawing of what you propose please - it's difficult to understand what you plan at mo

If the coal shed is part of the existing building and you simply adding a 3m squared porch then that should come under pd , it's no different to adding a porch anywhere on the front of the building

Personally I would be knocking on all neighbours asking them and getting the name of the builder(s) they used 

Why does your builder think a build over agreement is required and why?

Yazmina

cerebus said:

Op - can we have a drawing of what you propose please - it's difficult to understand what you plan at mo

I don't have any drawings.

cerebus said:

If the coal shed is part of the existing building and you simply adding a 3m squared porch then that should come under pd , it's no different to adding a porch anywhere on the front of the building. 

This is what I thought. 

cerebus said:

Why does your builder think a build over agreement is required and why?

Because the drainage is at the front, so in theory we'd need agreement from the water company. I've contacted the water company and they said the drainage from my house doesn't appear on their map. 

Section62

Yazmina said:

It was the architect who twice confirmed it's a permitted development.  He's familiar with our house as he did extension plans for the previous owner.  These drawings didn't include a porch though.

Architects aren't always the best at knowing the planning rules.  Ditto builders.  If you want a definitive answer you need to ask your local planners to confirm whether your proposal is PD.

Yazmina said:

cerebus said:

If the coal shed is part of the existing building and you simply adding a 3m squared porch then that should come under pd , it's no different to adding a porch anywhere on the front of the building. 

This is what I thought.

The PD rules are more complicated than that.  In many cases it is PD to add a porch of 3sqm or less, but you can only do it once.  You can't build a 3sqm porch then call that the "existing building" and add another 3sqm porch in front of that one.  Whether or not your proposal will be PD depends on several factors, including how the LPA treat the existing coal storage area.  Your case doesn't sound like a straightforward one.  Furthermore, PD doesn't apply in all cases, only some.

Yazmina said:

Because the drainage is at the front, so in theory we'd need agreement from the water company. I've contacted the water company and they said the drainage from my house doesn't appear on their map. 

This may be because the drainage was formerly private and was adopted in 2011.  The water companies didn't (and still don't) have records of these sewers.  If the builder is sure you have shared drainage then you need to tell the water company you think you need a buildover agreement.  Or get a drainage survey done to confirm the location of the pipes and that they are shared, and send a copy of that to the water company.  The good news is that if they are shared, and therefore public sewers, you won't have to pay if they get blocked.

Yazmina

Section62 said: Or get a drainage survey done to confirm the location of the pipes and that they are shared, and send a copy of that to the water company.  The good news is that if they are shared, and therefore public sewers, you won't have to pay if they get blocked.

I'll ring them on Monday.  We had a drainage survey done in 2017 when we bought the house. It shows that the waste water pipes stop two doors away. I called the water company last week or so, and they confirmed that they couldn't see a connection to our house, and that the drainage stops two doors away. 

The porch would sort of look like this.  The right hand side (minus the window) is the existing storage, and was definitely part of the original build. It currently houses the gas meter.  We would extend it to the left to look something like the picture below, and leave the gas meter where it is. It's definitely over two metres from the road. 

Section62

Yazmina said:

The porch would sort of look like this.  The right hand side (minus the window) is the existing storage, and was definitely part of the original build. It currently houses the gas meter.  We would extend it to the left to look something like the picture below, and leave the gas meter where it is. It's definitely over two metres from the road. 

I could be wrong, but I think there is more than a 50% chance the planners will see that as a 6m2 porch rather than a 3m2 porch added to the existing building.

As I said before though, for a definitive answer you need to check with the planners.