County Court Claim By Auto Security Limited (AutoSec) on Private Land / Counter Claim??

Yorks2000

Hang ion, the clerk said the counter claim would be nullified and shouldn’t be a problem - also that the new defence can be submitted by email as the preferred procedure.  She did retract it very quickly - less than 24hrs.

We’re still intending to follow the guidance - maybe we can check again with the court

Yorks2000

The clerk also said that nothing would be submitted to the claimant until 33 days after the date of the claim and that the defence information could still be submitted 

is that wrong?

Coupon-mad

Sounds wrong to me.   

Retracting a counterclaim is one thing (I hope they honour it and return her wasted £50) but re a defence:

You cannot change a defence once it is lodged without paying a 3 figure fee (unless she qualifies for 'help with fees' but she can't qualify - we assume - or she would not have had to pay £50 for the cc).

What does her MCOL history say?

Yorks2000

Oh shoot.  

For info, I’m away on holiday but trying to assist my daughter remotely just with phone - so I don’t have easy access to all documents etc

i’ll ask my daughter to check the MCOL and she is also speaking again to court clerk.

I’ll get the full text of what she entered in the ‘defence’ when I’m back on Saturday but I’m 100% certain it will be completely inadequate (as it was written from an emotive layperson standpoint being in shock at the court claim and without knowledge of the correct legal process - in mitigation, the implications are really not obvious to the unitiated.  Hindsight etc

Are we then shafted, or is there still a way out?

Anyway, I’ll update when I get MCOL status and text.

Coupon-mad

Let's have a look at it.

Might be something to build on at WS stage (see the NEWBIES thread please) but she must check her MCOL history just in case that defence is showing as 'withdrawn', which would leave her with nothing if she failed to realise!

Le_Kirk

Is it possible to submit a counter claim (subsequently withdrawn) without actually submitting a defence as well?

Yorks2000

Of course the guidance/concerns from @Coupon-mad proved to be completely correct (unfortunately for us).   Not ideal, but ‘we are where are’!  

Unintentionally, the Defendant has inadvertently submitted her evidence on the MCOL - not realising that this locked the process (the defendant fully expected to have the 28 days to refine the final evidence). Seems the guidance from the 1st clerk wasn’t correct - confirmed following a further discussion today. 

Current MCOL status says the defence was received 22nd June (submitted 21st) and that the claim has now been transferred to the local office (22nd June)

The defence comments were entered as copied below 

————————-

I am disputing this unwarranted and vexatious claim due to the

following reasons;

1. The ‘particulars’ of this court claim are incorrect! At no

time have I agreed to pay these unwarranted fines - on the

contrary, I have immediately and consistently confirmed my

intention to follow the appeals process to it’s final conclusion

(as confirmed in my letter dated 01st April 2020 and 15th October

2020)

2. The vehicle was NOT incorrectly parked and Autosec have

failed to provide any evidence to the contrary

3. Signage at the site was totally inadequate since the car park

in question (xxxxx) had no clear bays, marks or cones to highlight a parking space - therefore the imposition of a parking fine is totally unjust and incorrect.

4. The new parking regime was surreptitiously introduced without

prior notification right at the beginning of the first covid

lockdown in late March 2020). Despite written requests, AutoSec

have failed to provide any evidence that they had formal authority

to charge - the landowner stated that this matter was nothing to

do with them and declined to confirm that Autosec were operating on their behalf.

5. AutoSec have deliberately failed to follow the official appeals process. They have not even followed their own appeals

process and yet again, despite written requests, they ignored my

attempts to engage the official 2nd stage ‘Popla’ appeals process.

6. To date, AutoSec have singularly avoided providing any

evidence on the points above and have actively sought to

circumvent due process. None of the points raised in my

correspondence received a response. Rather AutoSec preferred to attempt to intimidate me into unfair payment.  

In further support of my case, I can provide the following if

required:

A) Photograph 1 of the parking site in question showing no bays,

yellow lines or cones

b) Photograph 2 of my car blocking no doors or fire exits.

c) Appeals correspondence dated 01st April 2020

d) Correspondence dated 15th April 2020 e) Autosec appeals process stating appeals only in writing, whichI complied, and any rejection needed a POPLA reference.

————-//—-

YES, we know now that this isn’t an ideal form of defence - If only we’d found this excellent forum a day earlier - hey ho!

The point now is - how we make the best of this situation.

Btw, I stopped the defendant from posting the SAR and CPR documents- I assume that was correct (or should we send them anyway just see if we get any reply?

The 2nd clerk did say that it was possible to submit additional information (would have to be sent to claimant as well) - any views on whether that is worthwhile?

As I say, we know it’s not the ideal scenario but any suggestions to make the best of this situation would be much appreciated 🤞

Fruitcake

Send the SAR to Autosec. Do not ask them to contact you if they require further information, that just gives them the opportunity to delay things.

Include non-photo proof of ID with the request such as the vehicle V5C.

Gather your evidence (photos, copy of the lease/property rental/ownership agreement, head lease etcetera). What is doesn't say is just as important as what it does say.
Somewhere there should also be a clause about your right to quiet enjoyment.


Read and re-read the guide to court and the Template Defence that also includes a twelve-step guide. Refer back to this every time you have a question about the process.


Complain to the landowner and managing agent who employed them if relevant.

Point out that the owner of Autosec is a convicted criminal, state the crime for which he was convicted, and quote the threats he made to the motorist about raping that person's partner, and that your daughter has become frightened since discovering this, and the thought of facing them in court. **
(You can act as a lay representative and speak for the defendant, but she must be present).

Point out that the landowner and managing agent (whoever employed Autosec or allowed Autosec to be employed) is jointly responsible for the actions of their agent. 
Either block Autosec's phone number if they call, or record the calls, especially if any threats are made.

Complain to the defendant's MP, again pointing out the criminal record of Autosec's owner, and ask how they could have been allowed to obtain motorist's personal details, especially that of a vulnerable woman. **


** Change this wording as required to ensure only the absolute truth is put in writing. **

Coupon-mad

That defence isn't bad - phew!

Yes she gets a chance to submit her WS and evidence later.  This is a normal stage of the process later this year, before any hearing.  It is not now.

Re-read the red capitals section in the NEWBIES thread second post about 'KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN'.

So she can relax for now, and do the N180 when it arrives (see the first 12 steps set out in the Template Defence sticky thread).

DO NOT offer money.  No panic here.  She is on track.

DO NOT reply to 'settlement offers' that the legals will push at her by letter, email or text.

DO TAKE PART IN THE DLUHC's FINAL PUBLIC CONSULTATION!   Coming in July/August, to resurrect and push the new statutory regime over the line:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet-industry-news/2022/06/24/private-parking-code-of-practice-temporarily-withdrawn

Both you and your DD's separate angry voices about the current extortionate claims and false 'fees' are what the DLUHC need to hear.

Join us then. Don't miss it...diarise to come here!

Yorks2000

@Coupon-mad and @Fruitcake - Many thanks for your really helpful comments which are much appreciated 👍

We’ll certainly follow the advice to the letter from here…and I’ll keep the thread updated as it progresses through the process

once again, many thanks 🙏