Octopus Go - billed for double my usage!

petelancaster1988

[Deleted User] said:

Were you by any chance a previous customer of British Gas and had their free electric tariff? I was and my meter used to give two readings, one for the weekly usage minus the 8 hour free time period and one for the free time period. This really screwed things up when I left BG as my monthly usage was about 20 kWh under the total usage meaning that when I finally found out about the second reading I owed my supplier £20 from the free time usage.

There was a problem with Secure SMETS1 meters which on adoption by the DCC were providing the supplier - via its Adapter software - with an XML file which had doubled the 30 minute usage. It was a problem that the DCC set up a working group to fix.

Edit: I found this on another forum from 2 years ago.

‘ Ok, just had a call from BEIS on this (very clever chap called Peter). It seems that SMETS1 meters record half hourly data as kW per half hour (not per hour) and therefore pre-DCC migration the SMETS1 SMSO was re-calculating this. It sounds like post DCC migration this recalculation step was lost and hence the issue you’re seeing.’

The issue was impacting many SMETS1 meters built by different manufacturers. As Octopus is the only supplier that uses 30 minute data for billing, their t-o-u tariff customers were the ones most affected.

‘SMSO:

Smart meters need a smart back-end system, which is why Secure has developed the Smart Metering Operator Services (SMSO) system. This system controls all aspects of meter operation, and is the interface between your business systems and your meters, using industry-standard web-service APIs.

We also realise that the day-to-day management of smart meters should not be a burden on your business, so we offer a wide range of services to help you get started in smart metering. These range from a full, web-based, smart metering management system through to consultancy services to help you integrate your business system with our SMSO system. For us, partnerships come first and this is about working together.’

On meter adoption, I believe that the DCC takes over this function.

That sounds very much like what could be happening to me! The fact that it has come from two years ago shows that it is not a problem that has been resolved successfully, from what I can gather. I will wait to get my reply from Octopus and unless they come up with something I'll just demand to have a SMETS2 unit fitted, which should resolve the problem.

Just feels a bit like pulling teeth trying to get anything done with the energy suppliers, meter manufacturers, DCC, etc...

[Deleted User]

petelancaster1988 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Were you by any chance a previous customer of British Gas and had their free electric tariff? I was and my meter used to give two readings, one for the weekly usage minus the 8 hour free time period and one for the free time period. This really screwed things up when I left BG as my monthly usage was about 20 kWh under the total usage meaning that when I finally found out about the second reading I owed my supplier £20 from the free time usage.

There was a problem with Secure SMETS1 meters which on adoption by the DCC were providing the supplier - via its Adapter software - with an XML file which had doubled the 30 minute usage. It was a problem that the DCC set up a working group to fix.

Edit: I found this on another forum from 2 years ago.

‘ Ok, just had a call from BEIS on this (very clever chap called Peter). It seems that SMETS1 meters record half hourly data as kW per half hour (not per hour) and therefore pre-DCC migration the SMETS1 SMSO was re-calculating this. It sounds like post DCC migration this recalculation step was lost and hence the issue you’re seeing.’

The issue was impacting many SMETS1 meters built by different manufacturers. As Octopus is the only supplier that uses 30 minute data for billing, their t-o-u tariff customers were the ones most affected.

‘SMSO:

Smart meters need a smart back-end system, which is why Secure has developed the Smart Metering Operator Services (SMSO) system. This system controls all aspects of meter operation, and is the interface between your business systems and your meters, using industry-standard web-service APIs.

We also realise that the day-to-day management of smart meters should not be a burden on your business, so we offer a wide range of services to help you get started in smart metering. These range from a full, web-based, smart metering management system through to consultancy services to help you integrate your business system with our SMSO system. For us, partnerships come first and this is about working together.’

On meter adoption, I believe that the DCC takes over this function.

That sounds very much like what could be happening to me! The fact that it has come from two years ago shows that it is not a problem that has been resolved successfully, from what I can gather. I will wait to get my reply from Octopus and unless they come up with something I'll just demand to have a SMETS2 unit fitted, which should resolve the problem.

Just feels a bit like pulling teeth trying to get anything done with the energy suppliers, meter manufacturers, DCC, etc...

You can demand as much as you like but suppliers are under no obligation to agree as they incur a fine. My guess is that your meter firmware hasn’t been updated and this is something that is the responsibility of the meter manufacturer.

debitcardmayhem

I have one of those, l&g meters, but as well as double charging(but hard to tell less than  2kwh/month) they are paying me for double my export too …oops 

petelancaster1988

debitcardmayhem said:

I have one of those, l&g meters, but as well as double charging(but hard to tell less than  2kwh/month) they are paying me for double my export too …oops 

The interesting thing is in the Octopus app my exports also show double! But because Octopus pays exports on a flat rate per kWh, they don't use the half-hourly readings for billing and instead just remotely take an export meter reading at the end of each month to calculate my exports. So while I pay double for my imports, I actually receive the correct amount for my export...

You can see why I'm somewhat grumpy with Octopus for allowing this situation to drag out so long. If it's my meter manufacturer that needs to do a firmware update, then Octopus should be pressuring them on my behalf. But then again, why would they act in their customer's best interests when they get the best of both worlds, double the amount billed for what they supply me but not double paid to me for what I export...

Customer service is a dying art, if not already long dead.

I'm switching my exports to Scottish Power anyway, as they pay 12p per kWh...

[Deleted User]

If it's my meter manufacturer that needs to do a firmware update, then Octopus should be pressuring them on my behalf.

I am sure that Octopus is doing what it can. The meter manufacturer produces the firmware update and it tests/certifies it as fit for deployment using the DCC test facilities. Once certified, the actual update is deployed in tranches by individual suppliers. 

I have a Kaifa electricity meter which a year or so ago returned index readings and an empty XML file on the daily data pull. The XML file contains the 30 minute usage data. It took Kaifa 3 firmware updates and 7 months to solve the problem. Yes, billing was problematic during that time but as each meter retains 13 months’ worth of 30 minute usage data, the data wasn’t lost.

In truth, they are very few levers that a supplier can pull and, as I said before, the lack of 30 minute data is not a major issue for most suppliers.

debitcardmayhem

petelancaster1988 said:

debitcardmayhem said:

I have one of those, l&g meters, but as well as double charging(but hard to tell less than  2kwh/month) they are paying me for double my export too …oops 

….snipped

Customer service is a dying art, if not already long dead.

I'm switching my exports to Scottish Power anyway, as they pay 12p per kWh...

Oh ok I thought octopus pays 15 per kWh and on flux it ranges from 9.3 to 22.98 to 36.95 ! Mine is currently 1600-1900 rate ie 36.95 and am exporting 3+ now. As for customer service they have been faultless, when I got my export MPAN I asked them to drop my dd by 80 / month done instantly. 

petelancaster1988

debitcardmayhem said:

petelancaster1988 said:

debitcardmayhem said:

I have one of those, l&g meters, but as well as double charging(but hard to tell less than  2kwh/month) they are paying me for double my export too …oops 

….snipped

Customer service is a dying art, if not already long dead.

I'm switching my exports to Scottish Power anyway, as they pay 12p per kWh...

Oh ok I thought octopus pays 15 per kWh and on flux it ranges from 9.3 to 22.98 to 36.95 ! Mine is currently 1600-1900 rate ie 36.95 and am exporting 3+ now. As for customer service they have been faultless, when I got my export MPAN I asked them to drop my dd by 80 / month done instantly. 

Octopus only pays 15p if you are not on one of their smart tariffs, otherwise you just get the standard 4.1p per kWh, which is garbage. Although admittedly not as garbage as some of the rates on offer out there.

Their customer service has been good in some situations I will be honest. But here, where their biggest USP is energy tariffs that rely on half-hourly readings, when there is a problem with those half-hourly readings, they have to be doing more than they currently are. A firmware update takes seconds to complete, but only if there is pressure to get it flashed through.

Octopus have done nothing so far to convince me that they are looking out for my best interests as their customer.

Dolor said:

It took Kaifa 3 firmware updates and 7 months to solve the problem. Yes, billing was problematic during that time but as each meter retains 13 months’ worth of 30 minute usage data, the data wasn’t lost.

I have to say this statement worries me because I am now 8 months down the line and no sign of anything happening. I would say a further 5 months of waiting is not beyond the realms of possibility, and what happens to the ability to sort out being over billed past that point...?

QrizB

petelancaster1988 said:

debitcardmayhem said:

petelancaster1988 said:

debitcardmayhem said:

I have one of those, l&g meters, but as well as double charging(but hard to tell less than  2kwh/month) they are paying me for double my export too …oops 

….snipped

Customer service is a dying art, if not already long dead.

I'm switching my exports to Scottish Power anyway, as they pay 12p per kWh...

Oh ok I thought octopus pays 15 per kWh and on flux it ranges from 9.3 to 22.98 to 36.95 ! Mine is currently 1600-1900 rate ie 36.95 and am exporting 3+ now. As for customer service they have been faultless, when I got my export MPAN I asked them to drop my dd by 80 / month done instantly. 

Octopus only pays 15p if you are not on one of their smart tariffs, otherwise you just get the standard 4.1p per kWh, which is garbage.

Scottish Power SmartGen+ is 12p/kWh but only if your panels were installed by Scottish Power unless I'm missing something?

Dolor said:

It took Kaifa 3 firmware updates and 7 months to solve the problem. Yes, billing was problematic during that time but as each meter retains 13 months’ worth of 30 minute usage data, the data wasn’t lost.

I have to say this statement worries me because I am now 8 months down the line and no sign of anything happening. I would say a further 5 months of waiting is not beyond the realms of possibility, and what happens to the ability to sort out being over billed past that point...?

Double billing is a breach of contract and of their SLCs.

If Octopus agree that they are double-billing you, they should stop doing it.

If they don't agree, or agree but keep on doing it, you should raise a formal complaint and (if that doesn't get you anywhere) escalate it to the ombudsman.

petelancaster1988

Scottish Power pays 15p per kWh if they installed your PV system, otherwise its 12p per kWh.

debitcardmayhem

@petelancaster1988 I forgot to mention Scottish Power seems not to have a good reputation on this site, but I have no experience of them, but I do have experience of ovo who are also dire.