Increase to Minimum Pension age from beyond 57

Altior

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. 

There has been a huge effort for some time to whip up/stoke up discontent in the younger generation. So much so that many are bitter about everything, before they have paid a penny of income tax. This 'mood' is an oil tanker unable to turn around, and anyone coming out the end of a university machine appears to be particularly convinced by the rhetoric. They mostly already hate their own country, and resent anyone over 50 that they aren't related to (probably some that they are!)

It's total logic that the state pension is vulnerable, purely on the mathematics and logic. Not just this country, but across the developed world. Due to technological and medical advancements, people now live decades past the age that they would expect to finish work. This trend is set to continue. The 'state' retirement age can only be pushed out so far. 

I'm in my 40s and the base circumstances of my retirement strategy is zero state benefits. Not because I feel hard done by or bitter, I have never had to work in a coal mine, or a factory like my dad. I sit at home and press buttons for a living. I am extremely fortunate, compared to the vast majority of any generation that came before me. I have not even been expected to fight in a war. Simply prudence, and a realisation that a flat state pension for all is simply unsustainable (but a political landmine, perhaps the biggest ever). 

Thumbs_Up

Anyone over 55 now will have to accept what’s gone has gone, the state pension is a pyramid scheme and it need lots of immigrants to feed it.

The only problem to work out now is we use to have lots of Industries that could employ the great majority of poorly educated people, now that’s all gone. We have to consider how artificial intelligence will have an impact on people lives and future jobs.

Altior

As far as the UK goes, national insurance is another term for tax. State pension is another term for benefit. 

Perhaps more palatable, but that's what they are. 

There is a rather loose contribution requirement. But it's about as loose as it could possibly be. People can get to 65+, not having paid a penny of earned income in during their entire life, just taking out. And still be awarded the old age benefit (state pension).

Universidad

Altior said:

There has been a huge effort for some time to whip up/stoke up discontent in the younger generation.

Housing costs have being going up while wages have stagnated and pensions have been cut, and the age at which they can be accessed has risen. Not last year, and the year before, but for over 15 years. That's damn near half a career, and there is no sign that it will improve in my lifetime.

If we manage to claw our way into a reasonable salary we pay a graduate tax that didn't exist for today's pensioners,  and then start losing child benefit at 50,000 - an amount which, thanks to inflation, is no longer the kind of exceptional salary that should attract an effective 80% marginal tax rate, which when you add it all together is what today's 40-something parents in solid middle-management jobs have to contend with.

How are we supposed to put anything aside, when so much is being taken up front?

And these, my friend, are the success stories! These are the people who have a decent salary, and could afford to start a family.

You can be 40 years old and worked every day since you left University, been promoted multiple times, reached the top of whatever salary scale, and still be worse off in real terms than you were in 2007 with a graduate position.

We aren't seeing any progress at all. On every front my generation, and the generations behind me, are pumping money into a system that has only ever underdelivered for us on its promises. And today's pensioners don't believe us, because they're been totally immunised to these changes - worse, my generation have subsidised them over and over again!

Now I'm not claiming that boomers and the older folks from gen x have had  easy lives, so let's not get distracted by talk of 16 hours down the mineshaft - but the work pensions you are drawing are literally not available to us.

Altior said:

They mostly already hate their own country,

I don't hate my country, I hate what has been done to it, you just don't see the difference.

Altior

Nobody is responsible for those changes, that's simply the movement of time and development. It's not older people beating down on younger people. It's not particular to the UK either. 

Of course, it is generalising. Not everyone will have the same thoughts and feelings. However all most younger people seem to just be able to see now is the obstacles as they perceive them, and not the multiple benefits of being young in this era.

There's so many things that I could outline that are easier now, I'd be here all night. 

I'm not sure what you think it was like, say thirty years ago. Do you feel like most people walked away from their a levels into a job, and a few months later, got their keys to their first house?

There was no minimum wage. You paid income tax on pretty much all of the income you did manage to earn. Telephoning someone involved buying a phone card and walking to the phone box, hoping your credits didn't burn out (more on that to follow). Breakfast at school was a warm bottle of milk, a straw, and a lump of cream to suck through at the top. If you needed to see a GP, you went into the surgery, joined the back of the queue in the waiting room and got in to see him three hours later, if you were lucky. Power cuts were standard, as a rule everyone had candles as a back up for when the lights went out. Eating out was a once a year luxury. If you were lucky, a holiday was a wet weekend looking out of a beach hut in England. 

No 'pocket money'. I was doing a paper round 7 days a week before school for five of them, for a tenner a week.

Microwaves, lol. Dishwashers lol. Washing machines lol. Permanent running hot water, lol. Power shower, lol (if you weren't the first, it was a cold bath). 

Exams actually tested your knowledge. No freebies back then. And no holding back from teachers in regard to what they thought of your work. I got in a fist fight once and hit multiple times by the head teacher with a metre ruler. We were regularly humiliated in front of other kids, it was the 'norm'. 

The internet only came later along as a young adult for me. In those days, you could either use your (fixed) house phone, or dial up internet, not both. Any significant downloads took hours. My parents were so skint that they installed a pay phone at home (yes that's right, even the most basic of phone calls were very expensive). You learned your vocabulary and how to spell using a physical pocket dictionary. If you wanted to learn anything for yourself, it was a trip to the library (by bus). The only way you knew a bus was coming was reading the timetable at the bus stop (obviously hit and miss). Secondary school from age 11 was getting up an hour and a half before the bell, and a six mile round trip on your own, a mix of walking and public transport in all weathers (no days off for a few snowflakes). In the winter, getting home after dark, on your own. 

No benefits of any description, aside from a little child benefit I believe. 

Online banking, lol. It was out of date paper statements, or a trip to the bank to get your book filled in and updated.

Satellite TV, lol. streaming, lol. TV = three channels in total (latterly, very exciting, C4 launched). If you wanted to turn the channel over, you had to get up and press the button on the telly. No TVs in every bedroom, just one in the house. If you didn't like what was on in the front room, bad luck.

I shared a bedroom with my sister (I'm a bloke) until I was around 14.

Cinema was a once a year experience. 

Some of the most exciting Saturdays when we were kids were the local churches jumble sale. A possibility of some new old toys. 

I wouldn't have had it any other way, in fact we were all aware at the time that we had it much better than our parents (I was around at the !!!!!! end of the winter of discontent, not really knowing much about the politics or why it was happening, I was a little boy). Nobody I knew complained about their lot. The bleating these days from the 'young' is quite infuriating at times. 

Universidad

Altior said:

I wouldn't have had it any other way, in fact we were all aware at the time that we had it much better than our parents

You said a lot about how hard life used to be, a thing I have never denied. But the quote above is the most important thing.

All your life, things have been getting better for you. All mine, things have been getting worse.

Your generation had it better than your parents. Mine have it worse.

The two exceptions to this rule are improvements in social justice, and technology. Not many millenials feel a debt of gratitude to the previous generations for these, for some reason.

TheBanker

Universidad said:

Altior said:

There has been a huge effort for some time to whip up/stoke up discontent in the younger generation.

Housing costs have being going up while wages have stagnated and pensions have been cut, and the age at which they can be accessed has risen. Not last year, and the year before, but for over 15 years. That's damn near half a career, and there is no sign that it will improve in my lifetime.

Haven pensions really been cut? The state pension has increased thanks to the Triple Lock, and there have been other reforms such as pension credit. I don't have statistics but I think someone receiving a state pension today is better off than someone receiving one 20 years ago, even adjusting for inflation. 

Private pensions have changed. DB pensions have become less common, with individuals having to take more responsibility. But the Auto Enrolment rules mean most employees benefit from an employer contribution, even if it's only a small amount. 

I don't think there's any evidence that pensions, either state or private, have been cut.

The increase in the age at which you can access pensions was inevitable, given we're generally healthier and live longer thanks in part to the NHS.

Altior

Universidad said:

Altior said:

I wouldn't have had it any other way, in fact we were all aware at the time that we had it much better than our parents

You said a lot about how hard life used to be, a thing I have never denied. But the quote above is the most important thing.

All your life, things have been getting better for you. All mine, things have been getting worse.

Your generation had it better than your parents. Mine have it worse.

The two exceptions to this rule are improvements in social justice, and technology. Not many millenials feel a debt of gratitude to the previous generations for these, for some reason.

Everyday life is easier in almost every conceivable way. You either have no perception of what it used to be like, or prefer to wilfully ignore it. As I noted in my post, if I had listed them all out I would have been there all night. It was just a sample.

I can confidently inform you that a typical life now is superior to what it typically would have been if you were born 3 decades earlier.

Arguably there was a sweet spot for pensions specifically, when they were DB for most people and life expectancy took off. The reason why DB pensions could exist in the private sector was because most of the people who actually got to receive them (it was far from guaranteed) would be dead shortly after, as most people (men at least) did a job that included physical labour, not tapping buttons on a computer.

Even if you were to claim that one, pensions don't impact a life in a positive way until late fifties at the earliest (unless terminal illness), so I'm assuming are not making your life tangibly worse atm. 

SouthCoastBoy

Universidad said:

Altior said:

There has been a huge effort for some time to whip up/stoke up discontent in the younger generation.

Housing costs have being going up while wages have stagnated and pensions have been cut, and the age at which they can be accessed has risen. Not last year, and the year before, but for over 15 years. That's damn near half a career, and there is no sign that it will improve in my lifetime.

If we manage to claw our way into a reasonable salary we pay a graduate tax that didn't exist for today's pensioners,  and then start losing child benefit at 50,000 - an amount which, thanks to inflation, is no longer the kind of exceptional salary that should attract an effective 80% marginal tax rate, which when you add it all together is what today's 40-something parents in solid middle-management jobs have to contend with.

How are we supposed to put anything aside, when so much is being taken up front?

And these, my friend, are the success stories! These are the people who have a decent salary, and could afford to start a family.

You can be 40 years old and worked every day since you left University, been promoted multiple times, reached the top of whatever salary scale, and still be worse off in real terms than you were in 2007 with a graduate position.

We aren't seeing any progress at all. On every front my generation, and the generations behind me, are pumping money into a system that has only ever underdelivered for us on its promises. And today's pensioners don't believe us, because they're been totally immunised to these changes - worse, my generation have subsidised them over and over again!

Now I'm not claiming that boomers and the older folks from gen x have had  easy lives, so let's not get distracted by talk of 16 hours down the mineshaft - but the work pensions you are drawing are literally not available to us.

Altior said:

They mostly already hate their own country,

I don't hate my country, I hate what has been done to it, you just don't see the difference.

Those in their 50s have suffered also. I have suffered from the 50k child benefit threshold although our joint income was well below 2 x 50k, I have no db pension, I was paying income tax at the basic rate at 30%, with a lot lower personal allowance, and a mortgage at 15% rates, I also suffered from negative equity in my house and worked in an era of high unemployment where I had to move 120 miles to get a decent job. Its not just the younger generation.

arthurdick

Altior said:

Nobody is responsible for those changes, that's simply the movement of time and development. It's not older people beating down on younger people. It's not particular to the UK either. 

Of course, it is generalising. Not everyone will have the same thoughts and feelings. However all most younger people seem to just be able to see now is the obstacles as they perceive them, and not the multiple benefits of being young in this era.

There's so many things that I could outline that are easier now, I'd be here all night. 

I'm not sure what you think it was like, say thirty years ago. Do you feel like most people walked away from their a levels into a job, and a few months later, got their keys to their first house?

There was no minimum wage. You paid income tax on pretty much all of the income you did manage to earn. Telephoning someone involved buying a phone card and walking to the phone box, hoping your credits didn't burn out (more on that to follow). Breakfast at school was a warm bottle of milk, a straw, and a lump of cream to suck through at the top. If you needed to see a GP, you went into the surgery, joined the back of the queue in the waiting room and got in to see him three hours later, if you were lucky. Power cuts were standard, as a rule everyone had candles as a back up for when the lights went out. Eating out was a once a year luxury. If you were lucky, a holiday was a wet weekend looking out of a beach hut in England. 


No 'pocket money'. I was doing a paper round 7 days a week before school for five of them, for a tenner a week.

Microwaves, lol. Dishwashers lol. Washing machines lol. Permanent running hot water, lol. Power shower, lol (if you weren't the first, it was a cold bath). 

Exams actually tested your knowledge. No freebies back then. And no holding back from teachers in regard to what they thought of your work. I got in a fist fight once and hit multiple times by the head teacher with a metre ruler. We were regularly humiliated in front of other kids, it was the 'norm'. 

The internet only came later along as a young adult for me. In those days, you could either use your (fixed) house phone, or dial up internet, not both. Any significant downloads took hours. My parents were so skint that they installed a pay phone at home (yes that's right, even the most basic of phone calls were very expensive). You learned your vocabulary and how to spell using a physical pocket dictionary. If you wanted to learn anything for yourself, it was a trip to the library (by bus). The only way you knew a bus was coming was reading the timetable at the bus stop (obviously hit and miss). Secondary school from age 11 was getting up an hour and a half before the bell, and a six mile round trip on your own, a mix of walking and public transport in all weathers (no days off for a few snowflakes). In the winter, getting home after dark, on your own. 

No benefits of any description, aside from a little child benefit I believe. 

Online banking, lol. It was out of date paper statements, or a trip to the bank to get your book filled in and updated.

Satellite TV, lol. streaming, lol. TV = three channels in total (latterly, very exciting, C4 launched). If you wanted to turn the channel over, you had to get up and press the button on the telly. No TVs in every bedroom, just one in the house. If you didn't like what was on in the front room, bad luck.

I shared a bedroom with my sister (I'm a bloke) until I was around 14.

Cinema was a once a year experience. 

Some of the most exciting Saturdays when we were kids were the local churches jumble sale. A possibility of some new old toys. 

I wouldn't have had it any other way, in fact we were all aware at the time that we had it much better than our parents (I was around at the !!!!!! end of the winter of discontent, not really knowing much about the politics or why it was happening, I was a little boy). Nobody I knew complained about their lot. The bleating these days from the 'young' is quite infuriating at times. 

Ha ha, some of that made me have a little giggle cheers. I remember making a telephone call by putting 2p coins in, then you had to feed it every time the pips started, as for going to the pictures, it was almost every Saturday morning at either Lewisham Odeon or Catford  ABC, for 5p.
I also had a paper round for about 2 quid per week but the Christmas tips made up for that.
The TV was rented from Radio Rental, which every now and then you had to bang the top and sides when you had horizontal or vertical rolls, the washing machine was a state of the art twintub.
For fun and adventures, we used to buy red rovers for 25p so we could travel all day around London on any bus.
Some of our Christmas presents were halfinched from one of our uncles who was a bit of a tealeaf, great presents though.
We used to get the slipper, cane or as in one case, the bleeding teacher threw a blackboard rubber at my head, and another time he made me headbutt the blackboard as hard as I could, I did, and it surprised him, he suddenly became all nice,

Oh the good days, were fun and it never did us any harm.

Sorry OP for going way off topic, but that post just had me laughing and it brought back memories.