No NTK & Oddity on Time Stamp

Jim_19

Today I received a final reminder from UKPC without receiving anything prior - I know there should have been a notice to keeper, but not sure if there should also have been another reminder letter in between too, prior to the final reminder. 

The ticket is for parking in a parent and toddler bay without a toddler present. The pictures just show an empty car - some pics from outside and one looking inside at empty front seats. I don't know what pictures of an empty car are meant to prove. I mean had they taken pictures of the back seats they would have got the baby seat on side and the child booster seat on the other - if thats the evidence that they were looking for.

There is also something strange that I've noticed on the time stamp of the different pictures: they all have exactly the same time, including the seconds. Is this not strange as I would think they couldn't have taken those pictures from different angles so quickly! Any thoughts on this?

From reading other threads, I take it the next step is to complain (as the appeal window is gone since they didn't send the NTK) specifically that I haven't recieved any letters prior to this without raising any other issues.

KeithP

Two points...

1) yes, complain to the car park owner. Where exactly did this alleged transgression take place?

2) check your vehicle's Registration Document(V5c), Does it have the Registered Keeper's correct up to date address on it?

Jim_19

It happened at Brent Cross shopping centre - I'll complain to them. The V5 is up to date and the address has been one and the same since I got the car, which was a few years ago. 

fisherjim

UKPC have been twice caught out for falsifying evidence in the past so anything is possible, especially as their attendants are incentivised.

Obviously the lack of photos of the rear seats is down to the fact there were child seats there, and there will not be any further evidence of no children present they don't have any.

You are dealing with scummy chancers this is how they work, no parking management only greed.

Umkomaas

Did you have children in the vehicle at the time?

Coupon-mad

I'd report this to the BPA - and copy in the DVLA please - as a formal complaint, stating:

(a). UKPC have sent a reminder but never sent a NTK.  What are they playing at?  Is this normal for some BPA members now or what, it is so commonly reported?

(b). They've wrongly accused the driver of misusing a parent & child bay, by taking carefully-angled photos of an empty car.  Had they taken pictures of the back seats they would have got a baby seat on one side and child booster seat on the other.  Do the BPA condone this crap?  Is this a rogue self-ticketer; are they registered with the BPA or not?

(c). UKPC appear to have 'frozen' (i.e. one might conclude 'falsified' on the face of the evidence) the time on the photos and this is something they were banned for by the DVLA, hence this complaint is also being sent to the DVLA.

Attach your proof and explain what you mean by the photo times and say it ANGRILY.

State that you are already posting about this on MSE forum and will take this to your MP and the national papers if the BPA fail to handle and investigate this serious complaint professionally, which will not be a matter of simply lifting the infamous BPA carpet and saying "UKPC have cancelled the PCN" and sweeping the dust under it.

The DVLA data complaints emails are shown in the 5th post of the NEWBIES thread.

Please make sure the DVLA see the photos and DO use my words above, making it clear that you know UKPC were banned by the DVLA a few years ago for something similar:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/amp/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

fisherjim

Hang on!

I wonder if there were any photos of the windscreen with a PCN stuck on it?

This looks like ghost ticketing to me, surely there should have been a notice to driver on the windscreen for this alleged violation of the T&C's, the OP has as good as said there wasn't?

The cynic in me might think this is a ploy to expedite the whole thing past POPLA as quick as possible, so the keeper doesn't get the chance to appeal, where without evidence I think they would lose.

Remember, UKPC's new approach is now to use court claims as their new frightener which will make many less enlightened victims cave in, I wouldn't put anything past this bunch.

I would definitely add ghost ticketing to the BPA complaint, UKPC will use their usual rubbish that it must have been pulled off by a third party, but that won't wash when added to all their other dodgy dealings.

Remember their attendants are incentivised "profit centres" allowed by the BPA even though incentives on pure numbers is forbidden they get away with it through a "striving for quality incentive"!

Also the cost of the yellow envelopes and an appeal is looked on as a cost deducted from their incentive.

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/2017-03-ukpc-incentive-scheme/

 

Jim_19

Thank you for all the advice! Fisherjim your point about the ticket not being on the car got me thinking. Shouldn't this type of parking ticket always be stuck to the car as it's an attendant issuing it rather than from ANPR where it's understandable the ticket would need to be sent to the address? Or is there no rule around this?

I also went back and looked at the pictures, where 3 out of the 6 are of the front of the car, and none show a ticket stuck to the windscreen (or anywhere else). This would indicate that a ticket was never stuck to the windscreen rather than being pulled off by a third party. 

I will complain to the BPA and DVLA using the words as advised couponmad. 

Just a question around the order in light of the dates. The parking charge date is stated as 12/05 whereas the parking charge issue date is stated as 17/05 and the final reminder letter date is 31/05 (exactly 14 days apart) although I didn't receive it until a few days ago. Nevertheless I am still within the appeal window.

So should I:

1. Appeal to UKPC first and wait for the reply/POPLA before the next step to BPA.

2. Appeal to UKPC and complain to BPA simultaneously.

3. Ignore UKPC and directly appeal to BPA.

I would think to do 2, but was wondering if in the case UKPC cancel the ticket whether BPA won't consider the issue. I will complain to DVLA asap as that is unrelated. 

Coupon-mad

Appeal to UKPC (NOT USING A TEMPLATE) and complain to BPA simultaneously.

There is no rule yet making them affix a PCN to the windscreen but I fought tooth and nail on this for consumers and it's in the new 2024 statutory Code coming in.  The Government is listening.

Jim_19

Just wanted to update on this. DVLA replied with a long generic email that said they were provided evidence of possible breach of parking rules by a BPA member parking firm and so they provided registered owner details based on this. They failed to acknowledge the timestamps and then said if I'm not satisfied that I can write to some other place. It's sort of read like a generic and frustrating reply you get from one of the parking operators when you make any appeal. 

BPA replied and said that they cannot consider anything until an appeal is first made to the parking operator. 

UKPC took this long to reply but today sent a single line letter that after investigation of the they've decided to cancel the parking charge. 

I feel something more should be done and that the company shouldn't get away with faking timestamps. If I wrote to a newspaper would they be interested? I would imagine probably not as no action has been taken against them. 

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad said:

I'd report this to the BPA - and copy in the DVLA please - as a formal complaint, stating:

(a). UKPC have sent a reminder but never sent a NTK.  What are they playing at?  Is this normal for some BPA members now or what, it is so commonly reported?

(b). They've wrongly accused the driver of misusing a parent & child bay, by taking carefully-angled photos of an empty car.  Had they taken pictures of the back seats they would have got a baby seat on one side and child booster seat on the other.  Do the BPA condone this crap?  Is this a rogue self-ticketer; are they registered with the BPA or not?

(c). UKPC appear to have 'frozen' (i.e. one might conclude 'falsified' on the face of the evidence) the time on the photos and this is something they were banned for by the DVLA, hence this complaint is also being sent to the DVLA.

Attach your proof and explain what you mean by the photo times and say it ANGRILY.

State that you are already posting about this on MSE forum and will take this to your MP and the national papers if the BPA fail to handle and investigate this serious complaint professionally, which will not be a matter of simply lifting the infamous BPA carpet and saying "UKPC have cancelled the PCN" and sweeping the dust under it.

Do the above again but start by complaining as above to UKPC.

Read what the BPA said to you again: 'appeal to UKPC first' is not what the BPA told you to do.  They said you must use UKPC's complaints procedure first.  Complaints are different from appeals.

So do that, then move it to the BPA.