York St John's, Parking Eye and a Blue Badge

kirbyhowarth

So, here we go.

Recently a went to pick up my son who has special needs who has been allocated a Blue Badge Permit from York Council.
I parked on a road called Ramsey Close. This is a road that starts as a public road but transitions into a private road which at the time I was unaware of. I parked on double yellow lines. I displayed the Blue Badge with the time I arrived, which I had done on several occasions when parking in this spot without incident. The land and the road at this spot it turns out is owned by York St John University.

A number of days after the last instance of parking there I received a parking charge notice from Parking Eye. They supplied two images one entering on the road and one  leaving on the road. No pictures of where I had been parked could be supplied.

I appealed this stating I was not parked in the carpark but parked on double yellow lines and on the road (Ramsey Close) showing the Blue Badge. I supplied an image of where I was parked and my sons Blue Badge information. The appeal was rejected. I appealed then to POPLA with the same information and again this was rejected.
I then contacted the estates management team for St Johns University as I felt that if I explained the situation and pointed out the lack of signage to indicate the road was private, they could possible have the notice cancelled.

This after much too'ing and fro'ing resulted in them pretty much siding with their Parking contractor and not acknowledging they may have a responsibility of signage in terms of the road transitioning from public to private.

Any advice or help in the matter much appreciated.

Umkomaas

You seem to have exhausted the initial processes, so be ready for debt collector letters (giving you14 days to respond) which you can totally ignore (read the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, fourth post), or a formal Letter of Claim from PE (or their solicitors - possibly DCB Legal) or a County Court Claim via the Northampton CCBC. Come back if you receive either of the latter. 

Coupon-mad

Yep.  Well worth defending.

What exactly did the useless POPLA appeal decision spew out?

Obviously you can park on street on double yellows with a Blue Badge,  However, POPLA refuse to recognise that's what double yellows at kerbs actually mean.  A court WOULD listen to that.

I doubt PEye will choose this one for court but if you want to almost certainly get them to cancel it, one way is to:

(a) get the story in your local newspaper and

(b). get your MP to make a complaint to ParkingEye and their Trade Body, the BPA, on your behalf.

kirbyhowarth

OK, so as to be totally transparent I am attaching POPLA's decision.
Please not that they state that the ANPR camera's picked me up entering the carpark, but the cameras actually picked me up still on the road and leaving still on the road. I never entered the carpark.
Surely I can only break the T&Cs if I parked in the carpark which I didn't, and they don't have proof that I did. They only have two images of my car on the road called Ramsey Close.

Coupon-mad

Yep, load of utter rubbish isn't it?!

Ignore that and try the local paper and your MP to lean on PEye and the BPA (both) to explain themselves because this wasn't the permit holders car park.

B789

"The site in question is monitored by ANPR cameras that monitors the time that a vehicle has been parked on site for." What utter bulls testicles. An assessor that should be working for the intellectually malnourished PPCs. Oh, hang on... in effect he/she does. 

kirbyhowarth

OK, please correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I took another look at the ANPR images attached and some signage images. If you look closely I have indicated in red where the private road starts and on entering my back wheel or part there of, is still on a public road. That said I am still clearly on a road and not in a carpark so until I enter the carpark have not breached the T&Cs.

Below that is the signage that was in place and about in line with the red line but out of shot next to the carpark. The sign as you see it, is coming in on the road and says "See signs in carpark for more details" so those words clearly imply I've yet to enter the carpark. Below that is the new signage which was put up mid appeal. Personally I think it's even worse than the previous sign, nothing to suggest the road or land is private. This is crazy, frustrating and exhausting and these contractors get away with this !!!!!! and what's worse is the the land owner, York St Johns University an educational body lets them do this. Sorry, I'm venting.

Coupon-mad

Usual shoddy stuff.

That last sign isn't even a ParkingEye one, so clearly the Uni got so many issues from this operation that they felt the need to add their own extra sign.

fisherjim

Oh dear pity you didn't come here first!

If GSV 2019 is still as the site is today, the signage it not compliant in any way shape or form with the BPA COP or minimum requirements.

There is no boundary evident as to where the car park begins and the highway finishes.

As you did not pass any signage that indicated T&Cs you could not view or accept any implied contract.

As you cannot differentiate between it being a highway and a private road it would be quite reasonable to assume that their double yellow lines (which impersonate an authority parking indicator) were the same as a public road.

The signage that you have photographed does not form a contract, there is no offer of parking, it is forbidding as such I believe (I stand to be corrected) you can only be accused of trespass and a third party cannot take this to court only the land owner.

POPLA will always side with the PPC unless you prove their evidence is rubbish, in this case they have just gone along with the ANPR evidence as you have not provided anything else to go on, you just said what events happened and quoted a misconception about DYL's on private property.

I feel a court case might be more favourable with forum help, just look as GSV below one of the worst cases of lack of signage going, and your NOTICE of ANPR in use isn't even a Parking Eye sign let alone a BPA COP compliant one.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.9702172,-1.0747102,3a,75y,187.23h,87.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfPc_FAElOvRUOrr3if9uPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

HTH.

kirbyhowarth

OK, so just finished a compliant to BPA. Let's see how that goes.
Thanks @fisherjim

fisherjim

kirbyhowarth said:

OK, so just finished a compliant to BPA. Let's see how that goes.
Thanks @fisherjim

You should ask the BPA when they last audited this site for compliance to their COP, they won't have because it's just an annual office visit over a cup of tea a biscuit to look at the file of signage example master copies.

A total farce!