Help on refund of car on HP - claiming related losses

DawsonB75

Hello all,  first my apologies if this is in the wrong section - please feel free to move.

My finance company has agreed (subject to review) to fully refund my faulty car purchased from a national dealer who washed their hands of the car very early on.  As well as refund of the cost of the car (deposit & payments made (+ interest on these), value of part ex), they have agreed to refund a couple of purchases made directly as a result of the car being faulty and a couple of ancillary costs (parking permit linked to the car, for example) totalling around £100.  All good so far, but I have a couple of issues which I hope you good people can advise on.

Due to car breakdowns caused by the fault that existed at the time of sale, I had to take time off work - in total I've lost a few hundred pounds worth of paid leave that I wouldn't have taken otherwise (it might have been less were it not for the dealership's incompetence but that's another story).  The finance company have already advised me that they won't consider compensating me for this.  From a legal standpoint, do I have a reasonable chance of being able to reclaim this, either by putting my foot down with the finance company or by a separate claim later?  If the latter, do I accept their offer under protest?

Also, would I be within my rights to ask that the finance company provide me with a courtesy car between the time the car is handed back and the refund has been made?  They've told me it would take a couple of weeks after receiving the car before I am refunded, and I am unable to purchase another car until then*.  During that time, I will be left without a vehicle which is a problem as I'm an essential car user for work (and even if I weren't, public transport where I live is atrocious enough to be a non-option) and I use the car as a carer for my disabled parents.  There's no-one I can borrow a car from, I'm loathe to dent my finances on a hire car, and PCP/lease cars are out the question due to my mileage.

*I could purchase another car, but it would be a small deposit and a longer repayment period.  However, would it be feasible, once I get the refund, to renegotiate with the new finance company - say that I pay them the refunded money (which will be about 50% of the total purchase price) and rearrange the finances to a shorter term / lower payments with consideration of this amount?   I think I know the answer but thought I'd check just in case. 

Thanks in advance for any help.

Grumpy_chap

DawsonB75 said:

Hello all,  first my apologies if this is in the wrong section - please feel free to move.

My finance company has agreed (subject to review) to fully refund my faulty car purchased from a national dealer who washed their hands of the car very early on.  As well as refund of the cost of the car (deposit & payments made (+ interest on these), value of part ex), they have agreed to refund a couple of purchases made directly as a result of the car being faulty and a couple of ancillary costs (parking permit linked to the car, for example) totalling around £100.  All good so far, but I have a couple of issues which I hope you good people can advise on.

Due to car breakdowns caused by the fault that existed at the time of sale, I had to take time off work - in total I've lost a few hundred pounds worth of paid leave that I wouldn't have taken otherwise (it might have been less were it not for the dealership's incompetence but that's another story).  The finance company have already advised me that they won't consider compensating me for this.  From a legal standpoint, do I have a reasonable chance of being able to reclaim this, either by putting my foot down with the finance company or by a separate claim later?  If the latter, do I accept their offer under protest?

Also, would I be within my rights to ask that the finance company provide me with a courtesy car between the time the car is handed back and the refund has been made?  They've told me it would take a couple of weeks after receiving the car before I am refunded, and I am unable to purchase another car until then*.  During that time, I will be left without a vehicle which is a problem as I'm an essential car user for work (and even if I weren't, public transport where I live is atrocious enough to be a non-option) and I use the car as a carer for my disabled parents.  There's no-one I can borrow a car from, I'm loathe to dent my finances on a hire car, and PCP/lease cars are out the question due to my mileage.

*I could purchase another car, but it would be a small deposit and a longer repayment period.  However, would it be feasible, once I get the refund, to renegotiate with the new finance company - say that I pay them the refunded money (which will be about 50% of the total purchase price) and rearrange the finances to a shorter term / lower payments with consideration of this amount?   I think I know the answer but thought I'd check just in case. 

Thanks in advance for any help.

You seem to have a good settlement from the finance company.  AIUI, there is no obligation for them to reimburse consequential losses (parking permit) which they have done so. 

I suspect that any request for recovery of the lost time from work / lost annual leave would not be successful.  This would also be consequential loss and is not directly linked to the car. 
The same with regard to costs between the return of the car and the purchase of a replacement car. 
You don't have to choose to take annual leave and can manage this through other means - public transport (which I note you say is not convenient), hire car, taxi, lift-share with a colleague etc.
If it was the garage doing the refund, then a courtesy car might have been more likely (as at least the garage probably has some) whereas the finance company probably don't even have any courtesy cars.

The issue around lost work is all very real and very inconvenient, but you also need to consider what benefit you have had from the car.  You don't mention how long you had the car, or how long it was in the garage.  However, take an assumed 2 months ownership and 2 weeks in the garage.  That would mean you still had 6 weeks of beneficial use of the car, for which you will have paid nothing.  Obviously, my time periods are for example only, but hope the explanation makes sense.

The full refund + offer seems to be a good one.

What is important to know is are the finance company accepting this and treating it as a rejection of the car under S75?  i.e. the finance company accepting joint liability.  OR, are the finance company taking the car back and processing as a "chargeback" equivalent whereby the car dealer may still try to recover their losses from you via the courts.

Finally, if you take another loan to get the new car in the interim before the funds are available, then you will be able to overpay the balance and reduce the total interest.  Front-loaded interest is no longer permitted.
Some loans will then keep the monthly the same and reduce the term. 
Some loans will then reduce the monthly and keep the term the same.  In this case, you can make further over-payments.

Another option is to buy a £1k banger - so long as it works and lasts as long as the equivalent loan payments for £1k, you will have won as it were.

Good luck in solving everything.

lordmountararat

I understand your frustration and the points you are making, but I think you have actually done quite well with what the finance company have offered. You could always take it further with professional legal advice, but if it was me I'd be inclined to settle on their terms.

DawsonB75

Thank you for the replies.  It just very frustrating.  To answer a couple of points above (though I doubt it would make a difference to the outcome), The car is being rejected under s.75.  I bought it 6 weeks ago and it's been in the dealership for 4 of those weeks (this excludes the numerous call outs to their roadside assistance I had to make - even the technicians couldn't believe it). Given the multiple problems with the car - and I'm not going to go into the misselling by the dealership that went on - I think the dealership would have a cheek, and more a hard time - chasing me for payment.  

The issue of getting to work: Please accept that it is not a matter of preference but that I must have my own car.  For various reasons I'm not going to go into (it does get tiresome explaining this to people who then say "oh, I see what you mean, you really must have your own car!" so I'm asking it's taken as gospel but it's besides the point and not up for discussion).  I had the choice of annual leave or unpaid leave for the time I was without a car.  Just btw, this time was lost in waiting for recovery, being transported to the dealership or back home.  I was provided with courtesy cars (eventually - that's another story) but there was still a lot of time lost due to waiting around that otherwise would not have happened. 

It makes me laugh when the finance company talks about putting me in the same financial position I was in before I bought this car but ignores that I had a car at that point and hadn't lost hundreds of pounds of leave I had to take solely because of the car sold to me breaking down.

Meanwhile, I've spoken to a local reputable dealership who have provided a few options for me for getting a car quickly so I'll see how things develop. 

Grumpy_chap

DawsonB75 said:

It just very frustrating. 

The car is being rejected under s.75. 
I think the dealership would have a cheek, and more a hard time - chasing me for payment.  

I totally understand the frustration and annoyance of the situation - consumer rights only extend to returning you to the position you would have been prior to the transaction.  The remedy you report slightly betters this.  The inconvenience / lost annual leave / etc is not covered and all comes under frustration and annoyance but does not have a financial remedy.

It is worth making absolutely sure that the finance company are treating this as a claim under S75. 
Sometimes they do not, even when that is what the individual requested. 
I have never needed to make an S75 claim, but reports in this forum suggest that finance companies do not usually process them particularly quickly and ask for a high level of evidence before accepting a claim is valid under S75.  Obviously, yours may be such a clear cut case as to make that fade away.
There have also been cases reported - I confess only on credit card S75 requests - where the finance has done a chargeback and then the original supplier has issued CCJ proceedings against the original purchaser. You might think it would be a cheek and a hard time but, for the value of a car, the garage would probably seek recovery if they can legally do so.
I have no knowledge whether HP finance has a similar mechanism as chargeback - others in the forum may know.

It is good that you have found a suitable route to a replacement car.  Hope that all works far smoother for you than the current experience.

Ryan_Holden

Sorry to hear you've had a bad run.

I don't see how you could justify them getting you a loan car. You're effectively terminating your agreement with them and they're just processing your refund.

Equally with your paid leave, I see literally no reason they'd consider themselves liable for that.

The deal you've been offered IMO is spot on.

Grab yourself a £1k banger and flog it when your new car is here.

martinbainbridge1975

have you had a conversation with the finance company around hire cars till you are fully settled?  some are more reasonable than others.

I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago, the dealership offered me a loan car for a few days.  If this was me I would be pushing the dealership, or asking the finance to push them on your behalf

is it a well known dealer network, I would put money on it is

Alderbank

DawsonB75 said:

The issue of getting to work: Please accept that it is not a matter of preference but that I must have my own car.  For various reasons I'm not going to go into (it does get tiresome explaining this to people who then say "oh, I see what you mean, you really must have your own car!" so I'm asking it's taken as gospel but it's besides the point and not up for discussion).  

No car is guaranteed to be 100% available. Apart from planned non-availability due to Service and MOT any vehicle can break down and there is always risk of RTA. Fire, theft or vandalism are possibilities.

In view of your need to have a vehicle you will have contingency plans in place? The finance company will expect you to revert to your contingency plans. Those plans are unknown to the finance company and as said above are too remote to expect them to have assessed.

If you didn't have contingency plans, this might be a good time to put plans in place for the future?

DawsonB75

Thanks again all.  Another vehicle has been sorted out, deposit paid and collecting next week. I don't want to name names just yet or go into details until I've got the refund (the issue involved I think is actually quite serious from what the franchised repairer said to me).

Anyway....things have moved quicker than I was led to believe and there's been a mixup in communication.  The finance company organised collection from the franchised dealership who were attempting to repair the vehicle but didn't tell them it was being collected.  Yesterday the dealership had fixed the car (but found other issues one of which i mentioned above) by the time the recovery truck turned up.  They called me and asked if they were OK to release the car to the recovery people, I said yes. 

Now I'm worried that the finance co are going to refuse the refund as the problem is now supposedly sorted (it was sorted the past 2 times but wasnt').  Am I worrying over nothing? I've already paid for insurance for the new car, organised the current policy to be cancelled, v5 sent back etc.  Is it a case of refund agreed so it will go ahead regardless?

DawsonB75

Just a quick update.  Car recovered and money (eventually) refunded with a couple of hundred pounds extra compensation thrown in after I kicked up a fuss about everything that had happened.  I'm still about £150 out of pocket overall but glad to be shut of that car and in my new (to me) one that's working out nicely.  Apparently the car just went straight to auction.  Feel sorry for whoever buys it with the problems that were discovered.  As for the dealer, the nature of the issues with the car means that they must have known about them but lied.  A "get it off my chest" letter is being prepped for head office - not that they'll take any notice of course.