I got a ticket without ever entering a parking space or leaving my vehicle!

tegmim

I went to Manchester a few months ago, and tried to find a parking space in Browncross carpark. For anyone that has never been there, it is a horrible little carpark that winds around a piece of rough ground and in and out of some railway arches, and it is very difficult to drive around (or was on that day) as the gaps between vehicles are barely wider than a car, and it has lots of dead ends that you have to reverse out of. I didn't know the car park or where else I could park, so I drove around each part, looking for a space, waited a few minutes in case anyone left, then waited whilst another car drove in blocking my exit, until it got out of my way and then I left.

I want to be clear that I never entered a parking space, left my vehicle or turned off the engine - I simply tried to drive around the (almost impossible to navigate) parking area to look for a space, found there wasn't one, waited a short while in case a space became available and then left. I was a bit slow as had to wait for someone else to leave who came in after me, and then do a complicated turn to get out between the overly parked up spaces, so I supposedly spent 19 minutes in the carpark.

On that basis they issued me a ticket, as my registration was seen entering and exiting the carpark with 19 minutes in between the two time stamps, without buying a ticket. So of course I appealed to Euro carparks, thinking it was an obvious case where the ticket was issued in error, but they refused to cancel it. I then appealed to POPLA who told me today that they have refused my appeal on the basis that I should have left the carpark rather than waited for a space or paid for a ticket whilst I waited - with no acknowledgement that I was blocked in or that it was almost impossible to turn my car around and get out!

Surely they can't charge me for looking for a space, or waiting for a space?

I also sent POPLA evidence that I then paid for 3 hours parking elsewhere, and there is plenty of evidence that I was due to be somewhere for the whole morning (from before the time they clocked me entering their carpark until the time I left the other carpark) as I was receiving an award, and was even interviewed on the radio that morning from the event! But they say I "used the carpark facilities for 19 minutes" by looking for space, and thus have to pay £100.

Do I let this got to court and hope a judge has some common sense?

Coupon-mad

It won't go to court and you can safely ignore Euro Car Parks and the daft £170 debt demands that will follow.  ECP never sue over single PCNs.

One favour please:

We need you - as a genuine PPC victim of aggression, sharp practice and an 'extortion' attempt to add £70 - to respond robustly to the Public Consultation on the level of parking charges and banning of the false added DRA 'fee' that too many honest motorists currently fall victim to.

It will need consumer input (powerful voices) but change is afoot. It's taken about 5 years to get to this stage:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333036/breaking-news-government-has-announced-the-statutory-code-of-practice-and-enforcement-framework/p1

And then the industry threw victims' money at it and blocked and delayed it - explained here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79310609/#Comment_79310609

Please now Bookmark BOTH threads and set up email alerts on your posting profile, so that you get an email alert when we post there, as we will, once the Public Consultation opens.

...anticipated in a few weeks...

...July we think.

We need people like you and your driving family & friends to respond in high numbers!

You have a personal story to tell about the culture of greed that inflates parking charges to line the pockets of roboclaim bullyboy 'legal' firms, and incentivises court as a cheaper form of debt collection than the PPC making proper efforts to engage with the consumer,

I am sure you want your voice heard to stop this happening again.

Astonishingly, there are plenty of people fooled into PAYING.  Amazes me.  But this is why it's a £billion industry, because so many UK victims are daft or scared enough to pay.

This is why the Government has stepped in. Please help us all get this new law past the post this year.

B789

tegmim said:

Surely they can't charge me for looking for a space, or waiting for a space?

Surely they can... as you have found out. Welcome to the scam. It's a pity that you didn't come here before appealing as you could probably have had this thrown out at POPLA stage as there are several recent POPLA appeals that have been won against ECP.

Anyway, you are where you are and as advised above by @Coupon-mad, just ignore the tidal wave of debt collector letters as they are not worth the paper they are written on. ECP will not go to court.

Read the Newbies/FAQ thread for all the information you need as it answers just about every question you may have about this.

tegmim

I told ECP to take it to court or stop contacting me, as I consider it harrassment. It made no difference. I still get occasional "debt" letters with different branding - some dressed up to look like solicitors or who imply they are going to send debt collectors to my property. It is almost amusing how persistent they are. I'm collecting them as souvenirs.

Gr1pr

Same as everyone else, they have 6 years to initiate a court claim, of which they are currently issuing hundreds or thousands, bulk litigation, so never say never 

Coupon-mad

tegmim said:

I told ECP to take it to court or stop contacting me, as I consider it harrassment. It made no difference. I still get occasional "debt" letters with different branding - some dressed up to look like solicitors or who imply they are going to send debt collectors to my property. It is almost amusing how persistent they are. I'm collecting them as souvenirs.

You will get a court claim, huge batches are being issued by ECP this year, so keep your address updated with ECP if you move.

Let's hope they use DCB Legal because they always discontinue well defended claims.

tegmim

Well, they can try. But I'm not persuaded that a court will enforce a ticket for someone who didn't ever enter a parking space, turn off the engine or leave the vehicle (especially as I've been an expert witness in about 200 court cases).

tegmim

Well, I got a court claim letter and I'm going to fight it.

I've read the small print of every sign, and there is no indication that payment is due for anything other than parking, and strict rules to park within the marked bays. I didn't enter a parking space or turn off my vehicle, so I don't consider that I parked (and what is more, I'm pretty convinced that I drove in and out of the carpark several times, as I drove through all the railway arch sections that seem to belong to the neighbouring Spaw Street Carpark, not the Browncross one where I supposedly spent my 19 minutes).

Seems to be Sarah Ensall, a paralegal at The Keith Jones Partnership, who has filed the claim. I hope someone at that firm sees sense, but if not, I'll let you know what happens in court.

Coupon-mad

tegmim said:

Well, I got a court claim letter and I'm going to fight it.

I've read the small print of every sign, and there is no indication that payment is due for anything other than parking, and strict rules to park within the marked bays. I didn't enter a parking space or turn off my vehicle, so I don't consider that I parked (and what is more, I'm pretty convinced that I drove in and out of the carpark several times, as I drove through all the railway arch sections that seem to belong to the neighbouring Spaw Street Carpark, not the Browncross one where I supposedly spent my 19 minutes).

Seems to be Sarah Ensall, a paralegal at The Keith Jones Partnership, who has filed the claim. I hope someone at that firm sees sense, but if not, I'll let you know what happens in court.

No - we want to ensure your defence is right first. Let us help. Show us the POC and tell us the Date of Issue of the Claim Form.

tegmim

Issued 3rd Jan

KeithP

tegmim said:

Issued 3rd Jan

With a Claim Issue Date of 3rd January, you have until Wednesday 22nd January 2025 to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 5th February 2025 to file a Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.