St James Place

artyboy

katejo said:

artyboy said:

SJP provide a very good service as a financial comfort blanket to those that can't or won't educate themselves about investments; and just want it all done for them in a warm cuddly sort of way.

(And also won't look at minor details such as entry/ongoing/exit charges, or fund range/performance)

That comes across as pretty patronising. I was completely new to investment as I had never previously had spare money to try stocks and shares (apart from when I briefly held a few shares from building societies becoming banks)  but last year needed to invest an inheritance. I am looking at charges and the performance of the funds but it isn't easy to compare without past investment experience!

I'm sorry you feel that way and this wasn't intended as a dig at you personally, but I stand by my view that they profit from the unwary - they certainly tried it on with me in my relative youth, but after the initial presentation I went away, did my own research, and realised that I'd have been financially insane to invest with them, however nice the coffee in their offices was...

If ultimately you decide you are happy with them, then I wish you the best, but as an MSE forum, I think you get the general feeling about the poor value they offer relative to DIY or IFA options. 

Malthusian

katejo said:

So how did you move away from them without losing money? 

Quite possibly he didn't - but if you don't pay the exit charge, you pay anyway by paying SJP's eye-watering fees for a longer period, so they have you coming or going. 
You can take the view that paying the exit charge is not "losing money" if you make it back via lower charges.

You say 'better value elsewhere' but where?

Almost any IFA will offer a better service (independent advice rather than tied advice) with lower charges. Even non-SJP tied salesmen have a good chance of offering the same service for lower charges.

Albermarle

artyboy said:

SJP provide a very good service as a financial comfort blanket to those that can't or won't educate themselves about investments; and just want it all done for them in a warm cuddly sort of way.

(And also won't look at minor details such as entry/ongoing/exit charges, or fund range/performance)

I have a family member, who will not have a word said against them. She thinks the advisor is very helpful, not only with the pension she has with them but also other issues. Also they have regular reviews/long chats etc.

On the other side there are regular posts on this forum, from people with IFA's or with other wealth management companies with high charges, who only hear from them once a year for half an hour and struggle to get details/responses to questions. ( Apologies to the regular posting IFA's who I am sure offer a much better service than that )

So it's horses for courses to some extent.

Us DIY types can point out the high costs, how easy it is just to invest in low cost funds etc  until we are blue in the face, but some people just need/like that comforting reassurance that comes with an operation like SJP

hewhohuntselves

katejo said:

artyboy said:

SJP provide a very good service as a financial comfort blanket to those that can't or won't educate themselves about investments; and just want it all done for them in a warm cuddly sort of way.

(And also won't look at minor details such as entry/ongoing/exit charges, or fund range/performance)

That comes across as pretty patronising. I was completely new to investment as I had never previously had spare money to try stocks and shares (apart from when I briefly held a few shares from building societies becoming banks)  but last year needed to invest an inheritance. I am looking at charges and the performance of the funds but it isn't easy to compare without past investment experience!

Take a look at this analysis of SJP: https://www.yodelar.com/insights/st-jamess-place-review

While there are cheap, good and easy to access options (such as Vanguard, via its website), if you want something a bit more customer-friendly, and with lower fees than SJP (but which many still consider to be a little excessive), you could look at Nutmeg or the like.

You should consider the effect of SJP's fees alone on your returns.  1 or 2 additional percent can cost you tens or perhaps even hundreds of thousands of £ over decades.  That is your money going to SJP.

I met SJP a couple of years ago and they gave me the hard sell.  They were salesmen selling an expensive product and I found it off-putting.  That said, I have a good friend - a former City lawyer - who rates them and is happy with his pension now being with them.  I have shared my concerns, but he is relaxed.  He is, however, only looking at how his SJP funds have performed, not how other comparable funds have performed over the same period.

katejo

hewhohuntselves said:

katejo said:

artyboy said:

SJP provide a very good service as a financial comfort blanket to those that can't or won't educate themselves about investments; and just want it all done for them in a warm cuddly sort of way.

(And also won't look at minor details such as entry/ongoing/exit charges, or fund range/performance)

That comes across as pretty patronising. I was completely new to investment as I had never previously had spare money to try stocks and shares (apart from when I briefly held a few shares from building societies becoming banks)  but last year needed to invest an inheritance. I am looking at charges and the performance of the funds but it isn't easy to compare without past investment experience!

Take a look at this analysis of SJP: https://www.yodelar.com/insights/st-jamess-place-review

While there are cheap, good and easy to access options (such as Vanguard, via its website), if you want something a bit more customer-friendly, and with lower fees than SJP (but which many still consider to be a little excessive), you could look at Nutmeg or the like.

You should consider the effect of SJP's fees alone on your returns.  1 or 2 additional percent can cost you tens or perhaps even hundreds of thousands of £ over decades.  That is your money going to SJP.

I met SJP a couple of years ago and they gave me the hard sell.  They were salesmen selling an expensive product and I found it off-putting.  That said, I have a good friend - a former City lawyer - who rates them and is happy with his pension now being with them.  I have shared my concerns, but he is relaxed.  He is, however, only looking at how his SJP funds have performed, not how other comparable funds have performed over the same period.

I haven't had  hard sell from the adviser at all. It would have have turned me off completely if I had. He has been patient and clear in explaining options and risks and has been willing to answer any questions. I don't have a pension with them. Only a unit trust and stocks and shares ISA. My pension is a university superannuation one (SAUL). No plans to change that. 
I would be interested to know to what extent  other investors (who have taken the DIY approach) have found that their investments have been affected during the current economic climate and since the  Ukraine invasion started. I can't compare because mine only started in early 2022.

Albermarle

katejo said:

hewhohuntselves said:

katejo said:

artyboy said:

SJP provide a very good service as a financial comfort blanket to those that can't or won't educate themselves about investments; and just want it all done for them in a warm cuddly sort of way.

(And also won't look at minor details such as entry/ongoing/exit charges, or fund range/performance)

That comes across as pretty patronising. I was completely new to investment as I had never previously had spare money to try stocks and shares (apart from when I briefly held a few shares from building societies becoming banks)  but last year needed to invest an inheritance. I am looking at charges and the performance of the funds but it isn't easy to compare without past investment experience!

Take a look at this analysis of SJP: https://www.yodelar.com/insights/st-jamess-place-review

While there are cheap, good and easy to access options (such as Vanguard, via its website), if you want something a bit more customer-friendly, and with lower fees than SJP (but which many still consider to be a little excessive), you could look at Nutmeg or the like.

You should consider the effect of SJP's fees alone on your returns.  1 or 2 additional percent can cost you tens or perhaps even hundreds of thousands of £ over decades.  That is your money going to SJP.

I met SJP a couple of years ago and they gave me the hard sell.  They were salesmen selling an expensive product and I found it off-putting.  That said, I have a good friend - a former City lawyer - who rates them and is happy with his pension now being with them.  I have shared my concerns, but he is relaxed.  He is, however, only looking at how his SJP funds have performed, not how other comparable funds have performed over the same period.

I haven't had  hard sell from the adviser at all. It would have have turned me off completely if I had. He has been patient and clear in explaining options and risks and has been willing to answer any questions. I don't have a pension with them. Only a unit trust and stocks and shares ISA. My pension is a university superannuation one (SAUL). No plans to change that. 
I would be interested to know to what extent  other investors (who have taken the DIY approach) have found that their investments have been affected during the current economic climate and since the  Ukraine invasion started. I can't compare because mine only started in early 2022.

Different DIY investors will have got different results, depending on how they are invested and what their objectives where.
For example an investor in their forties with a high risk tolerance, would have been mainly invested in equities ( maybe even 100%) . An investor drawing down a pension in their 70's would be unlikely to have such an approach.

artyboy

Albermarle said:

artyboy said:

SJP provide a very good service as a financial comfort blanket to those that can't or won't educate themselves about investments; and just want it all done for them in a warm cuddly sort of way.

(And also won't look at minor details such as entry/ongoing/exit charges, or fund range/performance)

I have a family member, who will not have a word said against them. She thinks the advisor is very helpful, not only with the pension she has with them but also other issues. Also they have regular reviews/long chats etc.

On the other side there are regular posts on this forum, from people with IFA's or with other wealth management companies with high charges, who only hear from them once a year for half an hour and struggle to get details/responses to questions. ( Apologies to the regular posting IFA's who I am sure offer a much better service than that )

So it's horses for courses to some extent.

Us DIY types can point out the high costs, how easy it is just to invest in low cost funds etc  until we are blue in the face, but some people just need/like that comforting reassurance that comes with an operation like SJP

There are also plenty of people that won't have a word said against Scientology or the Jehovahs Witnesses (sorry... jw.org...). But I'll stop there in case anyone thinks I'm likening SJP to a cult 

That aside, I think I could at least see the value in the high-charges-for-service model if their products performed well. But it's clear from the views of some of our more experienced investors/professionals here that this isn't the case.

Voyager2002

katejo said:

hewhohuntselves said:

katejo said:

artyboy said:

SJP provide a very good service as a financial comfort blanket to those that can't or won't educate themselves about investments; and just want it all done for them in a warm cuddly sort of way.

(And also won't look at minor details such as entry/ongoing/exit charges, or fund range/performance)

That comes across as pretty patronising. I was completely new to investment as I had never previously had spare money to try stocks and shares (apart from when I briefly held a few shares from building societies becoming banks)  but last year needed to invest an inheritance. I am looking at charges and the performance of the funds but it isn't easy to compare without past investment experience!

Take a look at this analysis of SJP: https://www.yodelar.com/insights/st-jamess-place-review

While there are cheap, good and easy to access options (such as Vanguard, via its website), if you want something a bit more customer-friendly, and with lower fees than SJP (but which many still consider to be a little excessive), you could look at Nutmeg or the like.

You should consider the effect of SJP's fees alone on your returns.  1 or 2 additional percent can cost you tens or perhaps even hundreds of thousands of £ over decades.  That is your money going to SJP.

I met SJP a couple of years ago and they gave me the hard sell.  They were salesmen selling an expensive product and I found it off-putting.  That said, I have a good friend - a former City lawyer - who rates them and is happy with his pension now being with them.  I have shared my concerns, but he is relaxed.  He is, however, only looking at how his SJP funds have performed, not how other comparable funds have performed over the same period.

I haven't had  hard sell from the adviser at all. It would have have turned me off completely if I had. He has been patient and clear in explaining options and risks and has been willing to answer any questions. I don't have a pension with them. Only a unit trust and stocks and shares ISA. My pension is a university superannuation one (SAUL). No plans to change that. 
I would be interested to know to what extent  other investors (who have taken the DIY approach) have found that their investments have been affected during the current economic climate and since the  Ukraine invasion started. I can't compare because mine only started in early 2022.

To respond to both of your posts, Katejo, you have obviously appreciated the service that they provided and are clear that you are paying a lot for it. As you say, it is very difficult to know how much you are paying: when I started managing my late father's investments I needed to ask them by telephone about some charges since they were not stated either on the documentation they provided nor on their website, and it was only because I was familiar with other investments that I knew what questions to ask. Whether or not their service is worth the cost will obviously depend on your situation, and whether or not you can find the time to learn about investments for yourself.

I have taken the DIY approach: my investments in Russia are currently a total loss while my investments in renewable energy have done well since the beginning of the current crisis. I think it would have been possible to make similar choices as an SJP client although probably most of the people who choose SJP would choose more mainstream investments.

Prism

I do think that SJP is too expensive I would suggest a good IFA but also recognise that they might be quite hard to find.

Also, just to try and point out that using SJP is not all bad, here is a comparison of them vs the DIY Hargreaves's Lansdown platform and SJP investors do better.

https://citywire.com/wealth-manager/news/sjp-vs-hargreaves-which-offers-more-bang-for-clients-bucks/a1404178

katejo

Malthusian said:

katejo said:

So how did you move away from them without losing money? 

Quite possibly he didn't - but if you don't pay the exit charge, you pay anyway by paying SJP's eye-watering fees for a longer period, so they have you coming or going. 
You can take the view that paying the exit charge is not "losing money" if you make it back via lower charges.

You say 'better value elsewhere' but where?

Almost any IFA will offer a better service (independent advice rather than tied advice) with lower charges. Even non-SJP tied salesmen have a good chance of offering the same service for lower charges.

According to this review, the exit fees only appear to apply to pensions which I don't have with SJP  St James’s Place review: is it any good? (2023) - Nuts About Money