Vanguard pension transfer - slow, no information, unhelpful - is this the norm?

Exodi

I'm in the process of transferring a SIPP from HL > VG. I already swapped all of my investments to Vanguard funds so I could transfer in specie.

I'm about 2 months in and not much has changed, but I'm not too bothered as I opened new pension account which I'm actively contributing to (so this transfer will eventually just add to it). I did send them a message last week as there have been no updates since creating it, and to cut a long story short, Vanguard and HL basically both just blamed each other for not responding.

As with others though, I am suprised at just how long this takes. As a layman in the 21st century, it does feel excessive that transfers should take 2,3,4,5,6+ months.

And while it's not the end of the world, I do find a tad irritating that Vanguard states (copy and pasted from their website):

Transfer times

We will aim to complete your transfer within 30 days, but depending on your provider it could take up to 8 weeks to complete.

Perhaps it would be more sincere to double both of those numbers.

dunstonh

And while it's not the end of the world, I do find a tad irritating that Vanguard states (copy and pasted from their website):

Transfer times

We will aim to complete your transfer within 30 days, but depending on your provider it could take up to 8 weeks to complete.

Perhaps it would be more sincere to double both of those numbers.

It is pretty misleading if that is the case as cash transfers are different to in-specie transfers and bundling both methods under a catchall that says within 30 days is not good communication.  In-specie is likely to take a lot longer than 30 days or even 8 weeks (3-6 months more typical).  Cash transfers can take 3 days to 4 weeks with retail providers but with occupational DC schemes they can take 6 months (mainly due to the new transfer checks)

Pat38493

dunstonh said:

And while it's not the end of the world, I do find a tad irritating that Vanguard states (copy and pasted from their website):

Transfer times

We will aim to complete your transfer within 30 days, but depending on your provider it could take up to 8 weeks to complete.

Perhaps it would be more sincere to double both of those numbers.

It is pretty misleading if that is the case as cash transfers are different to in-specie transfers and bundling both methods under a catchall that says within 30 days is not good communication.  In-specie is likely to take a lot longer than 30 days or even 8 weeks (3-6 months more typical).  Cash transfers can take 3 days to 4 weeks with retail providers but with occupational DC schemes they can take 6 months (mainly due to the new transfer checks)

Would this include an occupational scheme include an scheme that used to be an employer scheme, but they then changed to another provider so it's no longer linked to the employer (i.e. no further employer contributions).  However if I log into the Aviva Membersite interface, the pension is still labelled as the name of the employer that started it.

This piqued my interest because I am thinking of taking some tax free cash from it next year (not sure yet but possible) and I probably want to transfer it at some point as well, so I guess I should get my skates on if it's going to take 6 months to transfer.

Exodi

dunstonh said:

And while it's not the end of the world, I do find a tad irritating that Vanguard states (copy and pasted from their website):

Transfer times

We will aim to complete your transfer within 30 days, but depending on your provider it could take up to 8 weeks to complete.

Perhaps it would be more sincere to double both of those numbers.

It is pretty misleading if that is the case as cash transfers are different to in-specie transfers and bundling both methods under a catchall that says within 30 days is not good communication.  In-specie is likely to take a lot longer than 30 days or even 8 weeks (3-6 months more typical).  Cash transfers can take 3 days to 4 weeks with retail providers but with occupational DC schemes they can take 6 months (mainly due to the new transfer checks)

Yes indeed, it seems to be referring to cash transfers but displays for both.

After about 10 weeks, I got an email from HL to say "we've received confirmation from your new provider they are ready to receive your assets.". They then go on to say what happens next, which includes: "Transferring stock can now take up to six weeks, but sometimes longer" as they're reliant on fund managers. So we're looking at 10+6 weeks (and potentially longer).

So to say 'we will aim to complete your transfer within 30 days' or 'up to 8 weeks' is all but impossible for in specie transfers, where it's probably typical to be at least double/triple that. It would be nice if they put some words to that effect.

dunstonh

Would this include an occupational scheme include an scheme that used to be an employer scheme, but they then changed to another provider so it's no longer linked to the employer (i.e. no further employer contributions).  However if I log into the Aviva Membersite interface, the pension is still labelled as the name of the employer that started it.

Occupational pensions tend to have a professional administrator, even if an insurer is used as a provider.  e.g. Mercer, XPS, Capita etc.   Those tend to be the slowest around.  You are likely talking 3-6 months on a cash transfer and a lot of hoops to jump through.

Workplace pensions through an insurer tend to be the insurer handling the transfer.  They are usually the quickest providers.

Workplace pensions through mater trust schemes vary.  Some have similar hoops to jump through as the administrator ones.

SouthCoastBoy

dunstonh said:

Would this include an occupational scheme include an scheme that used to be an employer scheme, but they then changed to another provider so it's no longer linked to the employer (i.e. no further employer contributions).  However if I log into the Aviva Membersite interface, the pension is still labelled as the name of the employer that started it.

Occupational pensions tend to have a professional administrator, even if an insurer is used as a provider.  e.g. Mercer, XPS, Capita etc.   Those tend to be the slowest around.  You are likely talking 3-6 months on a cash transfer and a lot of hoops to jump through.

Workplace pensions through an insurer tend to be the insurer handling the transfer.  They are usually the quickest providers.

Workplace pensions through mater trust schemes vary.  Some have similar hoops to jump through as the administrator ones.

So are you saying you could be out of the market for 3 to 6 mths? If so I think that is unacceptable.

I am going to transfer a wtw administered company pension soon and I don't want to be out of the market that long

dunstonh

So are you saying you could be out of the market for 3 to 6 mths? If so I think that is unacceptable.

No.  You remain invested in the existing fund(s) right upto the point of transferring out.  

Pat38493

dunstonh said:

Would this include an occupational scheme include an scheme that used to be an employer scheme, but they then changed to another provider so it's no longer linked to the employer (i.e. no further employer contributions).  However if I log into the Aviva Membersite interface, the pension is still labelled as the name of the employer that started it.

Occupational pensions tend to have a professional administrator, even if an insurer is used as a provider.  e.g. Mercer, XPS, Capita etc.   Those tend to be the slowest around.  You are likely talking 3-6 months on a cash transfer and a lot of hoops to jump through.

Workplace pensions through an insurer tend to be the insurer handling the transfer.  They are usually the quickest providers.

Workplace pensions through mater trust schemes vary.  Some have similar hoops to jump through as the administrator ones.

OK I have missing knowledge here - how do I know what is the difference between an occupational pension and a workplace pension and how do I know which one this is?  It’s an Aviva DC pot that I can manage through Aviva website with a (limited) list of fund choices.

Albermarle

Pat38493 said:

dunstonh said:

Would this include an occupational scheme include an scheme that used to be an employer scheme, but they then changed to another provider so it's no longer linked to the employer (i.e. no further employer contributions).  However if I log into the Aviva Membersite interface, the pension is still labelled as the name of the employer that started it.

Occupational pensions tend to have a professional administrator, even if an insurer is used as a provider.  e.g. Mercer, XPS, Capita etc.   Those tend to be the slowest around.  You are likely talking 3-6 months on a cash transfer and a lot of hoops to jump through.

Workplace pensions through an insurer tend to be the insurer handling the transfer.  They are usually the quickest providers.

Workplace pensions through mater trust schemes vary.  Some have similar hoops to jump through as the administrator ones.

OK I have missing knowledge here - how do I know what is the difference between an occupational pension and a workplace pension and how do I know which one this is?  It’s an Aviva DC pot that I can manage through Aviva website with a (limited) list of fund choices.

Then it is standard workplace pension that you have directly with Aviva. No administrator involved, so any transfer should not be an issue. In fact Aviva seem to be one of the fastest.

cloud_dog

TheBanker said:

cloud_dog said:

I was intrigued by this post, as we are in a similar boat. 

My partner initiated a transfer on 31 March, and we are still progressing.  It is both a cash and in specie transfer, but where we are now is that Vanguard have instigated a requirement to speak with the person making the transfer before they will action/complete it.  The challenge is that that department only works 9am to 5pm, and my partner is going to have to go sit in their car to make the call happen, and hope that they can speak with someone at Vanguard's end during that 30 min period (they were advised that someone would contact them within 72 hours and that is 5 working days ago).  Having been through that conversation (I also transferred my pension out of Vanguard), I had difficulty in answering some of their questions (and this is me sat at home in front of my PC with all the credential / information available to me); heavens knows how they are going to actually progress this.

Are you transferring in or out of Vanguard? 

Transferring out.