Highview appeal rejected and looking for advice on second step

Rkidwes

Hi all

I recently got sent a PCN from Highview regarding alleged overstaying in a car park. The initial contact arrived through my letterbox more than 14 days after the alleged infringement (I have a witness to that) and as such, reading this forum, the POFA wording Citizens Advice (and somewhere else that I can't remember) I believe this is sufficient grounds to expect the charge to be rescinded.

Therefore, given that the PCN did mention POFA 2012 I appealed on these grounds whilst also adding @Grizebeck's Group Nexus appeal regarding Highview often suggesting they don't use POFA to the bottom, letting them know that there will be no handing over of driver details.

Anyway, perhaps obviously given that I'm here, they have rejected my appeal with no specific reference in their reply to either of the points I've raised and have included a POPLA code. So... I think my next step is probably a POPLA appeal and I guess my questions are:

1. Firstly is a POPLA appeal the next step?
2. Should I re-contact them to see if they are invoking POFA so I actually know which of my two arguments I am making? (Regarding the late receipt, or the fact that they can't give the fine to me as owner when they don't know the driver if they're not invoking POFA)
3. Finally, if they do intend to invoke POFA, is the late receipt of the PCN sufficient for POPLA and what sort of evidence can I provide?

Oh also, in their email they say they will hold the fine at an amount for 14 days but like the person who wrote in this post (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80051987), it is the higher amount (not the discount) and their initial letter had the two costs reversed, with the higher number (the number they still want to charge me) in the 'pay within 14 days section' and the lower amount in the 'this is the fine' section.

(I haven't added the correspondence itself as it I'm not sure how discrete I should be. But happy to if it would help)

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read and reply. Much appreciated.

Rkidwes

TO ADD TO ABOVE (no edit button as far as I can see):
In fact, after re-reading their email it seems they are invoking POFA and suggest they are serving me the PCN as the vehicle owner... Not sure how that affects any advice. 

Thanks

Half_way

What you have is not a fine, or a penalty charge notice, its whats called a Parking charge notice, that by some really freaky co-incidence has the same initials as a Penalty charge notice.

Have you complained to the car park owner?

They will be issuing their trumped up charge to you, as Registered keeper (RK) RK, Driver, and owner can all be completely different people/entity's 

a few questions - and its important not to guess as  to the drivers identity at this stage

Whos car park was it?

what sort of overstay was it ( under 5 min/10 min/15/30/1 hour or more)?

Was it a "double dip" that is two visits recorded as one?

Next take a read of this lentghly thread knownas a newbies sticky, theres a lot there as it need to be comprehensive

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4896178/the-parking-tickets-board-sticky#latest

Coupon-mad

the PCN did mention POFA 

Can you show it? Redact your personal data.

Grizebeck

Coupon-mad said:

the PCN did mention POFA 

Can you show it? Redact your personal data.

@Coupon-mad   As we discussed this is either group nexus having changed their pcns Or wrongly claiming they use POFA
So yes please post up front and back

B789

Rkidwes said:

Hi all

I recently got sent a PCN from Highview regarding alleged overstaying in a car park. The initial contact arrived through my letterbox more than 14 days after the alleged infringement (I have a witness to that) and as such, reading this forum, the POFA wording Citizens Advice (and somewhere else that I can't remember) I believe this is sufficient grounds to expect the charge to be rescinded.

It has nothing to do with when you actually received the PCN. It has everything to do with when you are "deemed" to have received it, which is 2 business days after it was posted. If they have used a bulk mailing facility, there may be no postmark on the envelope so you should look at the date of the letter itself. The date of the letter should be no more than 12 days after the date of the parking event. If it is later, then no matter what they say on the PCN about PoFA, it can't be compliant for dates. When you post your picture of the PCN, we can then see if the actual wording is compliant with PoFA.

Le_Kirk

Coupon-mad said:

the PCN did mention POFA 

Can you show it? Redact your personal data.

Grizebeck said:

Coupon-mad said:

the PCN did mention POFA 

Can you show it? Redact your personal data.

@Coupon-mad   As we discussed this is either group nexus having changed their pcns Or wrongly claiming they use POFA
So yes please post up front and back

To the OP, you might have a problem trying to post links due to being a recent joiner, in which case use something like dropbox and post a broken link such as hxxps//........ and a regular will complete the link for you once they have checked it.

Rkidwes

To try and answer a few of the things mentioned above:

• I haven't complained to the car park owner as the car was correctly identified as having overstayed for 45 mins in one block (not 'double dip').
• The car park is a Tesco one (I think, though there are two car parks around the Tesco with different lengths of stay in each).
• I have read the newbies thread but like a tree that branches very quickly, I felt it became overwhelming after the first rejection of appeal, with so much specificity about what info you should and shouldn't say hence why I wrote here.
• Regarding what @B789 said, the infringement was the 1st of the month, letter was dated 10th, I received it on the 20th. I do have a witness to coming home and finding it on the mat on this day, though given the POFA wording, maybe this wouldn't be considered sufficient to prove 'to the contrary' (POFA Schedule 4 9(6) wording) that it was received within the time limit and this is all a waste of time.

As for other requests, I will post up the letters if the previous point above doesn't make it all redundant but I don't have a scanner and will arrange to use one this evening.

Finally, thank you all so much for your quick responses. An incredible community the way you're all out there just helping people. Particularly this quickly.

Grizebeck

You dont need a scanner use your phone to take a photo
.
Yes as requested post up. 

B789

Rkidwes said:

Regarding what @B789 said, the infringement was the 1st of the month, letter was dated 10th, I received it on the 20th. I do have a witness to coming home and finding it on the mat on this day, though given the POFA wording, maybe this wouldn't be considered sufficient to prove 'to the contrary' (POFA Schedule 4 9(6) wording) that it was received within the time limit and this is all a waste of time.

So, subject to the actual wording used in the PCN, if it is PoFA compliant, it was issued within the required timeframe and therefore "deemed" to have been delivered/served within 14 days.

Unless you still have the envelope and it is postmarked, there is little you can do except maybe complain to Royal Mail about the delay in delivery. Not that that would probably be of much use. Another reason to argue that these scamming PPCs should be obliged to get proof of posting for documents that rely on critical dates that could lead to possible court proceedings.

Rkidwes

Below is a scan of the front of the letter.

If, as has been suggested above, I don't really have a leg to stand on regarding the date I received it. Firstly, how does that work given that I'm also supposed to then have a deadline for a reduced cost but I'd barely even received it by the time that deadline was up. Plus, the fact that even though their subsequent email seems to acknowledge a reduced price they've got the reduced price in here as £85... confused.

Anyway, any further help is much appreciated but it does feel somewhat futile given my only appeal is that, whatever date they sent it, it definitely didn't arrive in time.

Thanks again.