New Style ESA vs PIP application

ireallycantyodel

I just had a chat with a moneyhelper charity rep. Unfortunately it was a bit of a copy and paste conversation on their part and I am looking for people who actually have experience with this new kind of benefit.

My husband has colitis and struggles with joint and stomach pains as a result. He also gets run down quite quickly and he has problems with his L5, resulting in lower backpain.
He is very willing to work but even when he was in employment he was often off sick which made him feel really guilty (he worked for the council so they were very patient with him). He left that job because we had to relocate to be closer to his parents during the pandemic.

In January he started to be self-employed again after a few year of being employed. He is now valeting cars - he was hoping that the exercise would help and being independent he wouldn't get a Spanish inquisition every time he calls in sick. Unfortunately he runs out of stamina quickly and then he has to be off again for sometimes up to 5 days. So it kind of helps but he still is too unwell at times. He thought it was a bit overkill but he applied for PIP a while back. Surprise, surprise, he got knocked back. At that point he lost hope and didn't bother appealing - he feels that the threshold is quite high and there seems to be no middle ground for people who are too well to not work but too unwell to work ALL the time. If he went back into employment he would probably lose his job for being off sick too often.

Now they introduced the New Style ESA which is not means tested and I have so many questions and I would be interested to know what people's personal experience is:

• Is the assessment as strict as for PIP? (like they are really nice to you and empathetic and then *BAM* reject you? And if you got knocked back for PIP, how likely would it be to get ESA?)
• I realise there are two groups - one is the Support Group (I guess if he was eligible for that he would have also been eligible for PIP? Or is it more for people who can work but not as much as others? ie sick but not sick enough) or the Work related activity group (I don't quite understand this one, is this disability related at all? Since it says that being in that group means you have no limited capability - isn't that just like the old contribution based jobseekers allowance?)
  
• If they decide he falls into the Work related activity group - how is this not means tested? I presume that if you fall in that category you have no job at all?
• If you are in the support group it sounds like this is also split into groups depending on your level of disability? It looks like you can earn up to £160'ish pound a week from working - so doing some self-employed work shouldn't interfere with that, right?

Has anyone gone through the assessment yet and can tell me their experience?

sarahlply

I have been through both assessments in 2021, the criteria is different so being accepted for one is not a guarantee of the other, I am in support group for esa now. My pip assessment was horrific and had to appeal and am due to update thrm soon, just waiting on care plan from hospital as to long term treatment before I go ahead. the esa assessment was much more supportive and came across as if they wanted to help me find a way to work or volunteer even if just a few hours a week.
I don’t know how permitted work goes with this as haven’t been well enough to get to that yet but it’s something you can look into for your husband’s good days /spells.
hope this helps a bit.

huckster

ESA permitted work is 15 hours per week or less and net earnings should not exceed £167 per week.

Permitted work is not automatic. A form would need to be completed.

If someone attends an ESA capability to work assessment and advises that they do work  but are restricted due to health conditions, it may be difficulty to qualify for work related activities group (WRAG). And then if they did qualify for WRAG a New Style claim is only for 365 days.  Chances of getting into support group appears unlikely, based on information in your post.

calcotti

huckster said:

ESA permitted work is 15 hours per week or less and net earnings should not exceed £167 per week.

Permitted well is less than 16 hours/week.

huckster

Yes I meant up to 15 hours.

HillStreetBlues

huckster said:

Yes I meant up to 15 hours.

No, it's a calcotti has stated,  less than 16 hours pw

A person could work for 15 hours and 59 minutes.

calcotti

huckster said:

Yes I meant up to 15 hours.

'Up to 15 hours' is not the same as 'less than 16 hours' which is why I highlighted this.

Spoonie_Turtle

For ESA there are specific criteria, however people can also be awarded it if being found fit for work would put them or someone else at significant risk of harm.

Anyone who continues to claim ESA after the decision from their assessment is deemed not well enough/able to work.

The WRAG is as already pointed out, 12months max on ESA.  This group generally has to do work-related activity but not look for work.  This used to have an additional component above the standard ESA rate but not since April 2017, it was less than the Support Group.

People in the Support Group are not expected to do any work-related activity and get the extra component on top of the standard ESA rate.  This is an indefinite award, until/unless a different decision is made at a reassessment.


Your husband is correct that there is a gap between being too unwell to work but not well enough to qualify for benefits.  Unfortunately many many people are in that gap.  However depending on how his conditions affect him, he may not necessarily fall through it completely - there is a descriptor for ESA about continence.

[It's also possible he should have been awarded PIP, because they do routinely make wrong decisions, but based on the information so far none of us can say how likely that might be.]