CPM (UK Car Park Management) Leeds, PCN

RootieTootie

Hi!

The driver parked in this car park as they were advised it was not operational by a friend. When there are no bays on the main road available (St Peter’s Square), they have used this car park as their partner is registered blind and it's the closest parking space to the venue attended - The Wardrobe. The signage is minimal and the car park is very much like a building site.

The PCN issued is in the dropbox below with images of the area including a close up of a notice. The 'discounted' period has now past. The Wardrobe and surrounding businesses have been contacted in an attempt to acquire the landowners details, but no one seems to have their details so it's currently unknown who owns this rough square of land behind the St. Peter's Buildings.

Dropbox

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks. 

Le_Kirk

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

Posted by @Umkomaas

This is periodically posted by @Umkomaas

RootieTootie

Hi!

Thanks for this info. The businesses that line the car park have been contacted to no avail – they have no idea who the landowner is. So has the land registry department. They can help for a small fee but this will take about a week and the appeal deadline is 2nd June (I believe this is correct according to calculations). There are still other things on the list you sent to try.

Perhaps a draft of an appeal letter should be ready in place to send in case the landowner can't be tracked down before then. The driver can submit a picture of their partner's blue badge but it would be good to know how best to word the appeal. Perhaps there's a template of sorts on here already?

The location of the car park has been added to the drop box above. On the PCN the location is:

St Peters Building, Leeds (STS).
The post code of the buildings adjacent is LS9 8AH.
It's situated behind The Wardrobe, Leeds, at 6 St Peter's Square, Leeds LS9 8AH.
It seems to be numbered as 91 on ordinance survey maps. 

Thanks again.

Le_Kirk

The businesses must pay their lease/rent to somebody, sounds like they put it on the "too hard" pile.  What about the local council, someone pays the business rates.  Land registry fee is £3 but you need to do some research before you pay that and make sure you are asking about the right place, try to eliminate some of the post codes and focus on the most likely one.  Whenever I have used the Land Registry search (on-line), the info normally comes back pretty instantly.

RootieTootie

Hi Le-Kirk, 

Thanks so much for your continued help. Some of the businesses say they own their part of the building. I have been in touch with the planning department of the local council and they can't pinpoint who owns the land and have even suggested to contact the planning enforcement department. I have also emailed another business who may well be the landowner but I'm still awaiting their response. 

In the meantime, an appeal needs to be lodged by tomorrow (Friday 2nd June). The following has been drafted and I am keen to understand if it is sufficient in the first instance:

Dear Sir / Madam,

Penalty Charge Notice: [PCN number]

Registration: [Reg]

Address of Keeper: [address]

This letter is a formal challenge to the issue of your Parking Charge Notice of 11th May 2023

On [date], I was the registered keeper of a [Make/Model] registration number [Reg].

Reasons for requesting the cancellation of the above PCN are as laid out below:

-       The passenger of the car was blind and is registered disabled and all the parking bays nearby the venue attended – in this case The Wardrobe, St Peters Buildings, Leeds – were occupied.

-       The driver was advised to park to the rear of the building and that it was not operational.

-       The signage around the rear of the building was inadequate – there was nothing clear to indicate any contractual agreement was entered into.

-       I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

-       There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. 

I attached a copy of the blue badge displayed at the time of the alleged contravention. 

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and hope you will see to respectfully cancel the above PCN given the evidence provided.

Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]

KeithP

RootieTootie said:

Dear Sir / Madam,

Penalty Charge Notice: [PCN number]

Surely that should read 'Parking Charge Notice: [PCN number]'.

RootieTootie

I forgot also to add this that I also found: Could this be relevant?

The signage in the car park is of a “forbidding” nature. It is limited to cars displaying a valid permit only and therefore the terms cannot apply to cars without a permit because the signage does not offer an invitation to park on certain terms. The terms are forbidding. This means that there was never a contractual relationship. I refer you to the following case law: PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016], Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] – In all three of these cases the signage was found to be forbidding and thus only a trespass had occurred and would be a matter for the landowner.

RootieTootie

KeithP said:

RootieTootie said:

Dear Sir / Madam,

Penalty Charge Notice: [PCN number]

Surely that should read 'Parking Charge Notice: [PCN number]'.

Yes, my bad. Thank you for picking up on this.

RootieTootie

Just thought I'd share an update. An appeal has been submitted, in the meantime the search for the landowner continues...