Automatic Gearboxes

MouldyOldDough

Stubod said:

..earlier Suzuki Vitaras have the more traditional "torque converter" auto box  fitted and Suzuki generally have a good reputatin for reliability..??

Myself and my wife have had 5 Suzuki automatics over the last 20years and concur - the gearboxes are smooth and reliable

especially the last 6 speed TC boxes

ButtersUK

Why, then, do I see that they have fitted ASG (automated manual) transmissions in the current Vitara?

I rarely see anyone praising ASG.

Goudy

ButtersUK said:

Why, then, do I see that they have fitted ASG (automated manual) transmissions in the current Vitara?

I rarely see anyone praising ASG.

It's only the very latest Vitara's that use the ASG and I think it's very market specific.
A few years ago you could buy a torque convertor Vitara, S Cross, Swift and Baleno. 

Your average torque convertor auto's have terrible emissions which is the name of the game for car manufacturers these days in our market.

These days it's mainly CVT, Automated manuals and DCT's as they are way more efficient. 

Earlier this year I rented the new Grand Vitara mild hybrid with a CVT while on holiday.
It was pretty smooth and for the size and style of the car, it was actually very fuel efficient, particularly when you consider I was a couple of thousand miles away from the nearest motorway and was pottering around a small island in mental traffic. 

All the automated manuals I have ever driven have been pretty awful, mainly due to the fact most don't creep, which makes reversing and tight manoeuvres a two footed affair. 

ButtersUK

I don't dispute any of the above. It's 100% accurate.

It would be true to say my post serves little to no purpose other than to reiterate my disapproval of Suzuki choosing to put an ASG transmission in something like the Vitara.

They had the good sense to change the latter versions of the Ignis to CVT (away from ASG) ... but now, of course, you can only get an Ignis in manual form (and that's until they run out of them and will no longer produce them thereafter).

Goudy

ButtersUK said:

I don't dispute any of the above. It's 100% accurate.

It would be true to say my post serves little to no purpose other than to reiterate my disapproval of Suzuki choosing to put an ASG transmission in something like the Vitara.

They had the good sense to change the latter versions of the Ignis to CVT (away from ASG) ... but now, of course, you can only get an Ignis in manual form (and that's until they run out of them and will no longer produce them thereafter).

My Mrs is a Vitara fan, but hers is a manual.
She was looking at updating it for a auto but it looks like a Yaris Cross is on the cards.

Toyota now use half direct and half CVT gear arrangement for most of their hybrids.
The low gearing is direct from the electric motor just like an EV.
The higher gearing is done by the CVT gearbox.

This means it always pulls away in electric but also as the gearbox is only handling the higher ratios, it is much smaller and lighter.
A bonus of this is there's less of that excess revving/mooing you get with other CVT's.

ButtersUK

I wasn't aware of that detail regarding the transmission on the Yaris Cross. I've twice looked at one in the showroom and my knees got stuck under the steering wheel as I entered the car but that's because I set the seat at maximum height (which is how I prefer it), I'll have another look and will set it lower next time.

ButtersUK

What others, apart from the Vitara, did you and your Mrs look at? If you don't happen to fancy the VAG DSG transmissions then obviously that rules a few possibilities out (I have the 7 speed dry clutch DSG in an early Yeti  and it's been OK).
The Mazda CX30 ticks some of the boxes and a Hybrid Niro isn't a million miles away.

MouldyOldDough

Is there a list on line of all cars still using proper Torque Converter gearboxes ?

I currently have a 2017 Suzuki Baleno (based on a Swift mk 5) the 1.0 3 cylinder turbo engine is cam chain and it has a superb 6 speed TC box - and averages 55mpg together with low emissions (115g/km) Obviously it is ULEZ exempt !

I really hope that it stays reliable because I have no idea what I would replace it with.

Stubod

I was going to get a Yaris Cross as I wanted to go "automatic". Initially I was put off by it being CVT, but after  a test drive I was convinced! However at the time, (they had only just come out), there was a 9 month wait so I ended up with a Kia Niro Hybrid instead which although being the "poverty spec / 2", I really like.

Goudy

ButtersUK said:

What others, apart from the Vitara, did you and your Mrs look at? If you don't happen to fancy the VAG DSG transmissions then obviously that rules a few possibilities out (I have the 7 speed dry clutch DSG in an early Yeti  and it's been OK).
The Mazda CX30 ticks some of the boxes and a Hybrid Niro isn't a million miles away.

Her Vitara is a 2017 manual with the 1.6 M16A engine, there's little chance of it dying yet, she only thinks about changing it if I start thinking about changing my car.

She likes the Yaris Cross but it's rather expensive but the extended warranty is a bit of a bonus.

Something else that has recently caught my eye is the new Dacia Duster Hybrid 140.
That has a totally clutchless "dog" gearbox that Renault have developed from (loosely) their F1 program.

The "dog" gearbox has been around years in racing circles as they are robust and light, it's just Renault F1 have perfected the hybrid and auto change element.

The cogs of the gearbox are meshed together with interlocking teeth (Dogs) on the side of the gear cogs.
Initial drive is electric and the power through the gears is interrupted for a split second while the gears engage/disengage, hence no clutch. 
This engine/hybrid system/gearbox is also fitted to the Clio and Captur Hybrids and the Dacia Jogger and has some very good reviews.

Dacia also do something similar to Toyota with their extended warranty for every service.
It's called Dacia Zen and will extend the warranty for a year with each service for up to 7 year or 75,000 miles.
Toyota's is 10 years or 100,000 miles.

I hunted around for a auto supermini a few years ago and after a lot of deliberation, went for the Renault Clio TCE130 EDC. This is a 7 speed dual wet clutch system made by Getrag (7DCT300).
It's been pretty good and I like the way it drives, it feel more positive on the road, like a manual and I've found it far less dimwitted than some VW DSGs.

Whatever auto style gearbox cars come with these days, they usually need a service as some point and that can be expensive for some.
I was recently enquiring about MG's new Hybrid+ system and was told it's fourth year service included a gearbox service and that 4th service costs around £1000.