Box junction - fault - Camberwell new rd/denmark hill/camberwell church street - exemption?

taffer87

Travelling from Denmark hill into Camberwell Church street

Will appreciate help - foolishly stopped at a box junction today when turning right - not sure if an exemption applies as cars ahead were also turn right but wasn't stopped due to oncoming cars

Dashcam front and rear video here - will I get a fine for this? Assume they have cameras here

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p2196tj415eyi4x/AAC2h39O9pIzsy6F6xQ-DHlaa?dl=0

GSV:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4739774,-0.09312,3a,75y,59.79h,76.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF38r7VAFM5Mf8SrJ2aWF7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

It was the 2nd box that I got caught up in. Another car did come from behind me and take the place to the left ahead of me and they managed to avoid stopping in the box because of that so maybe there is a chance I can claim that there was space in front of me (as proven by the car behind me taking it) so it is not an offence?

Update: 

Ah, unfortunately, seems like TFL does enforce this location: "CAMBERWELL NEW RD JCN DENMARK HILL (NORTH BOX)" and there is one case 2220134124 in the last 2 months. There are also a few cases for the south box under location "CAMBERWELL NEW RD JCN DENMARK HILL (SOUTH BOX

Goudy

Yes, there are cameras on that junction but you can stop in a yellow box junction if turning right.
I've stopped on it a few times turning right there and never received a fine.
The pedestrian crossing by the toilets can back up traffic turning right.

Using the road - Road junctions (170 to 183) - THE HIGHWAY CODE (highwaycodeuk.co.uk)

It would be a contravention if you stopped while traveling straight on (either way) over that junction or turning left.

taffer87

Goudy said:

Yes, there are cameras on that junction but you can stop in a yellow box junction if turning right.
I've stopped on it a few times turning right there and never received a fine.
The pedestrian crossing by the toilets can back up traffic turning right.

Using the road - Road junctions (170 to 183) - THE HIGHWAY CODE (highwaycodeuk.co.uk)

It would be a contravention if you stopped while traveling straight on (either way) over that junction or turning left.

Thanks ah good to know if turning right isn't enforced here from your experience ... I fear technically unless stopped whilst turning right because of oncoming traffic or other traffic also turning right it probably still is a contravention

Car_54

Stopping in the first box while waiting to turn right is OK.
However, in the second box the OP had already turned right, and was now waiting .to go ahead.
Even if he had still been turning right, the HC (Rule 174) says "... you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right."
From the OP's description, he was stopped by queueing vehicles, not oncoming traffic.

baser999

The council would no doubt argue that OP had cleared the first box and should have waited on the unmarked section of the road rather than enter the second box where traffic had stopped?

taffer87

baser999 said:

The council would no doubt argue that OP had cleared the first box and should have waited on the unmarked section of the road rather than enter the second box where traffic had stopped?

yeah this is enforced by TFL - agreed should have waited in that area even though would be a bit awkward 

any idea if this sort of box junction is compliant? (assuming box junctions are required to be compliant with something)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Denmark+Hill,+London/@51.4741032,-0.0931554,42m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x48760387399c59b7:0x90f5e638b7d644d0!8m2!3d51.4671373!4d-0.0907882!16zL20vMDVnZGs4?entry=ttu

Coupon-mad

taffer87 said:

baser999 said:

The council would no doubt argue that OP had cleared the first box and should have waited on the unmarked section of the road rather than enter the second box where traffic had stopped?

yeah this is enforced by TFL - agreed should have waited in that area even though would be a bit awkward 

any idea if this sort of box junction is compliant? (assuming box junctions are required to be compliant with something)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Denmark+Hill,+London/@51.4741032,-0.0931554,42m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x48760387399c59b7:0x90f5e638b7d644d0!8m2!3d51.4671373!4d-0.0907882!16zL20vMDVnZGs4?entry=ttu

You have hopefully discovered pepipoo forum and asked there?
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

That's where the Local Authority and TFL PCN experts are.

taffer87

Just FYI didn't get any PCN and actually heard from TFL on a FOI request that normally they won't enforce right turn related turns on box junctions

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the update.