Stone doorstep broken by builder

NoisyGiraffe

Looking for guidance on how this can be fixed.

Builder has been in today replacing a sandstone header above upstairs window. When taking the scaffolding down part of it fell and broke off a section of our doorstep.




He's siliconed it back in place and put mortar on the crack at the top part, for now. He says he'll come back to discuss tomorrow and will do whatever work needs doing to rectify. He mentioned having a bullnose concrete step at home he can use to replace. 

I have concerns though as to how this can/should be done. When I painted the step a while back ago I could see that the whole step is the same material (terrazzo?) as the hard flooring in the 'porch' area inside the door, and it looks like it continues underneath the upvc doorframe in one piece. You can see it where the door trim is taken off, through the flecks of missing old red paint and the vertical bit underneath the producing part of the step.





Can anybody advise on how this should be properly repaired/replaced? Is it possible to cut out and replace parts or does it need to involve replacing the whole thing including under the door and inside?

Thanks in advance, really appreciate any guidance anybody can give! 

tacpot12

If it does go under the door and into the hallway (and I've not reason to doubt what you say), I would say that the best thing to do would be to repair it in-situ. Once it is repainted, you will not know that it has been repaired. 

Trying to remove the whole step if it continues under the door is going to create more problems to seal under and around the door propertly. 

I don't think silicone is suitable under the step. Even a high modulus silicone will have some give in it. I would have thought that it would be better to have a bed of mortar under the step, and to glue the step back together with steel reinforcement (rebar) set in resin. The resin should be one that can be used to fix anchors into brick, concrete and stone. 
 

RonRamsgate

Good to see your builder has offered a remedy, they have insurance if necessary (which the householder would have verified before work start) although the damage was by scaffold removal   
The builder has been up&close with your step and worked out out the best way forward for them   Let the builder carry out repair as necessary at their expense, it looks like an easy job. if your not happy you can reject the repair. Have repaired many of those with 2 part epoxy filler and a few coats of quick dry step paint.

  

ThisIsWeird

"He's siliconed it back in place and put mortar on the crack at the top part, for now. He says he'll come back to discuss tomorrow and will do whatever work needs doing to rectify. He mentioned having a bullnose concrete step at home he can use to replace."

That's a weird combination to be sure, for reasons mentioned above. But I suspect it was only as a temporary measure until he sorts out a proper repair.

The 'bullnose' step he has at home will likely do the job, and he'll cut it down to size to fit. Tbh, the existing step looked quite repairable using resin or mortar, and - once painted like you have before - should be nigh-on invisible. I wonder why he didn't just sort this?

I also wouldn't advise going under the door frame - that's pontless, a lot more work, and will likely lead to further issues. I'd be happier with either a proper repair of the current break - bed the broken piece in resin or mortar, and finish off the top smoothly - or cut away the whole top step in front of the door and let him bed down his own bullnose there in place. Your current step also looks 'bullnose', so it should all look the same.

stuart45

Concrete or stone cills go under the door frame. If they sit in front, the cill would work loose as it was stepped on.

NoisyGiraffe

RonRamsgate said:

Good to see your builder has offered a remedy, they have insurance if necessary (which the householder would have verified before work start) although the damage was by scaffold removal   
The builder has been up&close with your step and worked out out the best way forward for them   Let the builder carry out repair as necessary at their expense, it looks like an easy job. if your not happy you can reject the repair. Have repaired many of those with 2 part epoxy filler and a few coats of quick dry step paint.

  

Thanks, that's the reason I'm asking advice - so I know what type of fix is acceptable so I know whether to accept or reject what he is offering (or any further repair work he does).

When you've done this in the past have you reinforced the broken bits in any way, as suggested above? Or has the 2 part epoxy been enough to create a long lasting repair?

NoisyGiraffe

tacpot12 said:

If it does go under the door and into the hallway (and I've not reason to doubt what you say), I would say that the best thing to do would be to repair it in-situ. Once it is repainted, you will not know that it has been repaired. 

Trying to remove the whole step if it continues under the door is going to create more problems to seal under and around the door propertly. 

I don't think silicone is suitable under the step. Even a high modulus silicone will have some give in it. I would have thought that it would be better to have a bed of mortar under the step, and to glue the step back together with steel reinforcement (rebar) set in resin. The resin should be one that can be used to fix anchors into brick, concrete and stone. 
 

Thanks for this. I had the same concerns about the silicone. And yes, I'd definitely prefer to repair what's already there so thanks for the suggestion of how to do this.

ThisIsWeird

Did you see the broken-off part, Ron? I'm guessing the top step is a separate 'slab' around 2" thick, which is bedded down on what looks like a concrete base that's been cast in situ? And the base is completely unaffected by the damage, so is as solid as before?

In which case, I'd have thought that repairing the existing step by removing and cleaning up the broken-off part, and then resetting it tidily with either mortar or resin back on to that solid base would be the preferred outcome. Ie, wot he's done, except done proper (neat, and no silicone...)

It should be repairable to a near-perfect finish, and it will be painted in any case. It should be completely solid, pretty much as strong as ever - it'll take another scaff pole to dislodge it.

The alternatives just don't sound appealing to me. It won't require the door frame to be moved - what a palaver, and fraught with issues. And even cutting the whole top step off, flush with the outside of the door frame, will leave a vulnerable join there, right close to the door where moisture could percolate.

A non-pro opinion

NoisyGiraffe

stuart45 said:

Concrete or stone cills go under the door frame. If they sit in front, the cill would work loose as it was stepped on.

Thanks, I thought this would be the case. 

If it isn't possible to repair the broken piece properly, and it's necessary to replace the top step from in front of the door (to avoid any issues cause by cutting out from further back):

ThisIsWeird said:

"He's siliconed it back in place and put mortar on the crack at the top part, for now. He says he'll come back to discuss tomorrow and will do whatever work needs doing to rectify. He mentioned having a bullnose concrete step at home he can use to replace."

That's a weird combination to be sure, for reasons mentioned above. But I suspect it was only as a temporary measure until he sorts out a proper repair.

The 'bullnose' step he has at home will likely do the job, and he'll cut it down to size to fit. Tbh, the existing step looked quite repairable using resin or mortar, and - once painted like you have before - should be nigh-on invisible. I wonder why he didn't just sort this?

I also wouldn't advise going under the door frame - that's pontless, a lot more work, and will likely lead to further issues. I'd be happier with either a proper repair of the current break - bed the broken piece in resin or mortar, and finish off the top smoothly - or cut away the whole top step in front of the door and let him bed down his own bullnose there in place. Your current step also looks 'bullnose', so it should all look the same.

Would @tacpot12 suggestion of rebar set in resin, be sufficient to prevent any future movement and separation between old stone and new? If so, would it be better to set the rebar in vertically to the stone below, or horizontally to the stone under the door? 

stuart45

If you are going to use steel dowels, fix them into the main part of the cill, throw away the broken piece and shutter up and cast a new concrete piece on. Good idea to use a bonding agent on the join.

FreeBear

stuart45 said: If you are going to use steel dowels, fix them into the main part of the cill, throw away the broken piece and shutter up and cast a new concrete piece on. Good idea to use a bonding agent on the join.

And use stainless steel dowels for a permanent fix. Regular mild steel will rust eventually and cause the step to crack. It might take 50+ years for the pins to rust though..