Within guidelines of POFA or not? What arguments to use in POPLA appeal for this one?

Baldricks

Hello All

I'm hoping someone here could help or give some advice on below

I received a PCN (image of front and back below) This reminder is the first letter I received, I didn't receive the first letter that should state the reason for PCN being issued and no notice was left on my car and as ANPR was used this is a NTK right? Under POFA every PCN must contain a number of information like the time and date, also it must specify the vehicle and also most important , the land on which it was parked right? This PCN says The Gym Group Northampton, the issue here is that there are 2 gyms from The Gym Group Northampton in Northampton and each, up to about 4 weeks ago had different parking rules. One asked to validate car reg and the other one didn't. So I think it's a bit naughty for the issuer of this PCN not to specify which Gym it was right? The Gym has since changed the parking rules but I took screenshots, unfortunately I didn't take photos of signs and multiple have been posted since. Also should this reminder letter state the reason for this PCN being issued? Was this issued within the 14 days and did it have to be? There's mention of POFA on the back of it (I put 2 dots next to it) I appealed to the "creditor" and attached a screen shot with rules for this car park as they were when I parked but had no outcome yet. If it will be rejected what should I use as reason for appeal to POPLA? Is there anything you can see below that I can use in my appeal?

I also complained to BPA and have an ongoing discussion with them via email, they've been pretty quick with the first 2 replies but gone a bit quiet since mentioned POFA and sent them photos of this PCN.

I did go thru the newbies forum post to make sure I stick to the rules, sorry if I missed something but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

B789

Not PoFA compliant. Write the following to them:

This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an automatic win at POPLA. Therefore, please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw

End of.

Boat_to_Bolivia

Welcome.

At any point during your various correspondence have you divulged who was driving?

As far as I can see that PCN is non POFA compliant, therefore they cannot transfer liability to the Registered Keeper if the driver is not known.

This is often posted by @Grizebeck with regard to Group Nexus PCNs

This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw

Fruitcake

It is irrelevant what the reminder says. Only the original NTK is relevant with regards to PoFA. You could send an SAR to flush out the original NTK, or treat the reminder as if it was the NTK because it is the first correspondence to be received. However, as already advised, it will have been non-PoFA compliant so just go with the appeal as already advised.

If the appeal portal won't allow the appeal because it has passed their made up deadline, then send it by post, first class from a Post Office counter, and obtain the all important free proof of posting.

Baldricks

Firstly, thank you all very much for your help so far, I really appreciate it.

So unfortunately I already appealed to Nexus through their online appeal tool before finding this forum and used the screenshot that I attached in my post as ground for appeal, it says that this car park does not require validation. @boat to bolivia no I did not mention at any point that I was the driver, in my appeal I wrote "This site does not require validation (screenshot of terms for parking at this gym attached for you)"

Do you have maybe a template that I could use in my appeal to POPLA? Do I have to be specific in my POPLA appeal as to which part of PoFA Nexus didn't comply with?

@B789 Could you please help me understand why this notice is not PoFA compliant? Is it because they have 14 days from the time of parking to issue the NTK as per PoFA paragraph 9 sub-paragraph 5? Have you got a template I could use for POPLA appeal?

BPA were very quick at first to reply but since I questioned the PoFA compliance and sent them the NTK I've had no response from them.

Should and can I take this any further, the PoFA non compliance I mean? Would  DVLA do something about it?

Umkomaas

You cannot tell from the Reminder whether CP Plus met or not the full requirements of PoFA. Traditionally CP Plus have never attempted to invoke PoFA which was, provided the driver hadn't been identified, was a guaranteed withdrawal at forum-led initial appeal, or at second stage appeal at POPLA. But, more recently some CP Plus NtKs have been PoFA compliant. What you don't know is whether your original one was or not. 

Template POPLA appeal points are in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, third post, which are almost ready to use, perhaps a few tweaks to match your parking event. 

In terms of PoFA compliance you just state that the NtK was not PoFA compliant, or you can add the usual PPC failings of not serving the NtK on time and/or a failure to present the correct warning under para 9(2)(f).

Do you have a POPLA code, if so what is the date of the letter containing it?

Baldricks

@Umkomaas thank you. What do you think would be the best way of retrieving a copy of the first letter? I have not received a reply to my appeal from CP Plus yet. I appealed online so I assume they will send an email?

Umkomaas

A Subject Access Request (SAR) should elicit the original NtK, but they do have 30 days in which to reply, although some PPCs do respond more quickly. Send one off and see what transpires. 

There's a link to a SAR template in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post.

Baldricks

@Umkomaas ok so now I have two options, either request by SAR or use BPA's "help" to get it. I complained to BPA about the fact that I didn't receive the first letter and after a long email conversation this is a reply I got from them yesterday (screenshot below) they offered to get me in touch with someone that can help.... If I send a SAR I think that would have to be by post as I can't find any email addresses to contact these guys on other than the appeal email address.

Boat_to_Bolivia

Umkomaas said:

Do you have a POPLA code, if so what is the date of the letter containing it?

Could you please answer this question above.

Baldricks

@Boat_to_Bolivia no I don't have a POPLA code yet, I didn't receive a reply from them to my appeal so I assume they will send the POPLA code if they reject my appeal right? I appealed using their online tool.