Full pension possible with 32 years?

lemonpress
lemonpress Posts: 17 Forumite
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edited 13 June 2023 at 2:57PM in Topping up your state pension
Haven't paid NI since 2002 (have lived overseas since then). Can claim pension in 2025. Forecast to April 2022 is 171.12 a week and most can increase it to is 203.85 (full pension?). Cope amount is something like 29. Would purchase of post-2016 class 3 years (six or seven?) take to full pension? NI record says 25 full years with 20 incomplete years (including 2002-2005 which are out of limits).
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Comments

  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,400 Forumite
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    See page 6 here.

    https://www.dpf.org.uk/explorer/files/TOPPING-UP-YOUR-STATE-PENSION-GUIDE.pdf

    It was produced at inception of  NSP.

    Your starting amount was the higher of

    Old Rules

    NI years/30 x £119.30 (Full Basic) + ( SERPS - Deduction for Contracting Out).

    (25/30 x £119.30) + (SERPS - "COD")

    New Rules

    {NI years/35 x £155.65 (Full NSP)} - COPE.

    (25/35 x £155.65) -£29 (approx).

    Your SA was given by the Old Rules calculation.

    Since then, your SA has been index lined under the "Triple /double lock" and at 5/4/23 will be around £188.40.

    This is  around £15.45 short of a full NSP.

    This means you would need to pay for three years to achieve a full NSP.

    In your circumstances, Class 2 might be a possibility?

    https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-if-you-go-abroad

    You should check your exact situation with the Future Pension Centre.




  • Dazed_and_C0nfused
    Dazed_and_C0nfused Posts: 13,459 Forumite
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    edited 24 May 2023 at 1:45AM
    Your SA was given by the Old Rules calculation.
    This means you would need to pay for three years to achieve a full NSP.
    Since then, your SA has been index lined under the "Triple /double lock" and at 5/4/23 will be around £188.40.
    This is around £15.45 short of a full NSP.

    I was reading it as the entitlement today, based on NI history to April 2022, was £171.12 i.e. the 10.1% has already been applied.

    In which case the op needs 6 years.

    Five of which will add £5.82/week and the sixth the final £3.62/week.
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,400 Forumite
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    edited 24 May 2023 at 2:22AM
    I was reading it as the entitlement today, based on NI history to April 2022, was £171.12 i.e. the 10.1% has already been applied.

    Thanks - yes.

    Yours could be the correct interpretation.

    Perhaps the OP could clarify if the  amount at 5/4/ 22 was actually around £156.

    As you say, then the purchase of six years would be required for full NSP.

    Even more worthwhile investigating whether Class 2 would be a possibility in his case.

    In this connection, see

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80043453/#Comment_80043453


  • lemonpress
    lemonpress Posts: 17 Forumite
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    171.12 is the amount I’d get today based on record up to 2022 with 25 full (all pre-2002) qualifying years. I worked freelance abroad from 2003-2016 but only have tax records for the last 5 years of work. Would pre-2016 years boost my forecast?
  • molerat
    molerat Posts: 31,852 Forumite
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    edited 24 May 2023 at 7:55AM
    You can safely take pre 2016 years up to 30 but they will not add as much to your pension, £5.21 v £5.82 for a post 2016, so purchasing no more than 3 will keep you to the 6 years needed to reach the max.  If paying class 2 for those years it may be worth buying more for less though.
  • lemonpress
    lemonpress Posts: 17 Forumite
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    Thanks Molerat. I don’t know if I’m chasing the years to get to 35 under the new system or the final pension amount as calculated where 31 or 2 years will do it. If working abroad until 2016, would definitely seem class 2 might be possible for last few 5 (documented!) years but then how many class 3? 
  • pinnks
    pinnks Posts: 1,259 Forumite
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    If you were working abroad and working until you left the UK, then you may be able to pay the years under Class 2 at a fraction of the cost (£163 rather than £824 per year).  As far as I am aware, HMRC considers the criteria for each year you are asking to pay.

    Have a look at Social Security abroad: NI38 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) and although you are back in the UK, I assume HMRC will still want you to complete he CF83 form.  They have said that as long as they have that before 31 July 2023, you are protected from that cut-off date, irrespective of when they finally process it.  Receipt of the form will be logged in your Personal Tax Account.

  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,400 Forumite
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    I don’t know if I’m chasing the years to get to 35 under the new system 

    35 years is not necessarily relevant to people who, like you, are in the transition period between the old and new systems.


    What is important is your "starting amount" calculated as explained in my first post above.

    In your case it was the higher of

    Old Rules

    £99.42 + (SERPS - (approx) £29)


    New Rules

    £111.18 - £29 (approx).


    Therefore your "starting amount" was given by the Old Rules calculation.

    Now see chart referenced in my first post.

    Your starting amount has been indexed under the "triple/double lock"  and now stands at £171.12.


    This is  £32.73 short of a  full new state pension.

    Now see molerat's post above re cost of years and see links re Class 2 in my previous.

    You can check your precise situation with FPC.


  • lemonpress
    lemonpress Posts: 17 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Thanks for the really helpful replies (I can't check on the phone with FPC - hard of hearing. I've emailed them a few times.) Am sending CF83 with (overseas) tax returns for the last five years I worked here - I was a freelancer from 2003-2016 but have been unable to locate earlier tax records or 20-year old contracts! Presumably it will then be a case of waiting for the  International Case Worker to pronounce. If only these five years are deemed class 2 because of lack of proof, then the next step would calculating what is remaining from the current 32.73 shortfall and which year(s) to pay as class 3? 
  • Suhusa
    Suhusa Posts: 91 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    As pinnks mentioned, the crucial thing is that you worked immediately before you left for abroad. What counts as immediately isn't very well-defined - I stopped working three weeks before moving and can pay Class 2, but I've read a post about someone not getting to pay Class 2 because of stopping 2 weeks before moving.
    For my CF83 they didn't ask for proof of employment, but the situation may be different if you apply years after moving (whereas I applied within a year of moving).
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