Online retailer won't refund me

noitsnotme

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

noitsnotme said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

noitsnotme said:

What Royal Mail service was used?  Can the OP prove it was delivered on the 17th?  If not, delivery of RM 1st class is deemed to take place on the second working day after the item is posted, which in this case would make it the 12th.  I’m not sure what the deemed timescale is for 2nd class, 3 days? 4 days?

Assuming it was a parcel format there may have been a 2D delivery confirmation code.  If the OP has that it should prove the day of delivery.  Without it, how can they price it was delivered on the 17th?

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-029-3284?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

Probably RM Tracked, not many companies use standard mail for £265 orders but even standard mail should have delivery confirmation (not sure about letters but parcels certainly should as a company this size will have 2D barcodes on their labels)  

Also worth noting the date the courier delivered isn't necessarily the starting date, without diverting the thread into a debate, we go back to the old physical possession element. 

kinkers said:

Thank you Lunatic, I have email them what you've said and asked them to pass it on to a senior management member.

No trouble OP, let us know what they say if you can.

Beyond pestering them you have the option to send a letter before action (there are templates on Google or firms that will send one for a small fee).

After that it's a case of small claims, £240 is a fair amount and I don't see how you can lose if the tracking shows delivered on the 17th but it's a question of investing time and headache vs the reward. 

Fingers crossed they fold  

That’s not a given.  Not all businesses qualify for RM Tracked on account due to the minimum sending requirements.  I currently use it but will lose it at the end of the 12 month period as we have not sent enough.  We’ll go back to using normal service for packages to the value of the same amount as the OPs.  I know plenty of small business owners who do the same.

Yes I did mention the 2D codes but does the OP have that as proof?

All moot of course if the OP can provide tracking evidence.

I do appreciate it's not a given but on £19 million turnover I'm sure they meet the volume  

I don't think OP needs proof to be honest as it's looking like the cancellation period is 1 year and 14 days but it's best to keep it straight forward unless the company claim the parcel reach the OP earlier. 

Yes see my edit 👍

kinkers

Yes it was tracked. And I sent them a screenshot of my delivery confirmation in my very first email. It clearly shows my package in the porch and says "delivered on 17/04/2023".

jon81uk

This page is useful as sets out to retailers what they need to do
Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
It clearly states 
"Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason."

AXParis are wrong to state 14 days from date of order.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

jon81uk said:

This page is useful as sets out to retailers what they need to do
Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
It clearly states 
"Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason."

AXParis are wrong to state 14 days from date of order.

Sadly poorly written from the government pages.

"From" to some people could mean including the day of receipt, to others excluding the day of receipt (or 14 x 24 hour blocks from the moment of receipt). 

Would be more useful if they used the correct language of at the end of 14 days beginning the day after you receive the goods. 

DullGreyGuy

sheramber said:

Was it shipped 'tracked'?

Tracked 24 and Tracked 48 are a postal service offered to businesses by Royal Mail... kind of like Special Delivery and a "slow Special Delivery" that they offer to retail customers.

born_again

DullGreyGuy said:

14 days is from the day after delivery not sending. 

Certainly one oddity is a RM parcel being sent on the Mon 10th but not being received until Mon 17th. Even if it was sent second class and late on the 10th you'd still expect delivery by the Fri 14th at the latest. 

Depending on if its a tracked delivery or not my guess would be that the portal used a more expected delivery date which would have started the clock ticking before the 17th and hence the rejection. 

Its not clear when the OP checked the items, before going away or on returning on the 30th but inevitably leaving something to the last minute makes you more exposed to the risk of systems failures, not being able to get through to a call centre etc even if it is within your statutory allowed timescales. 

I know, but Op said did not know that date, so used one that they did & proved the point that they were over 14 days. Even though Consumer rights are from when actually received 

jon81uk

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

jon81uk said:

This page is useful as sets out to retailers what they need to do
Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
It clearly states 
"Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason."

AXParis are wrong to state 14 days from date of order.

Sadly poorly written from the government pages.

"From" to some people could mean including the day of receipt, to others excluding the day of receipt (or 14 x 24 hour blocks from the moment of receipt). 

Would be more useful if they used the correct language of at the end of 14 days beginning the day after you receive the goods. 

Where is "from" used?
It states the refund must be offered if they've told the retailer within 14 days of receipt that they wish to cancel. As you say, it is when day one takes place that is the question, I would take it to be the day of receipt, so goods delivered on the 1st and you have to inform them by the end of the 14th.

Manxman_in_exile

I see arguing over the dates and whether 14 days has expired as a secondary issue.

Without seeing exactly what the OP told Axparis I suspect that she has not actually complied with reg 32 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) and has not yet clearly informed them that she is cancelling the contract as opposed to just returning the goods.

Looking at their T&Cs and the wording of their returns policy (which, for example, gives entirely misleading information about having to notify them within 24 hours of faulty goods etc) I'd be amazed if Axparis have complied with reg 31 which would mean that the cancellation period has been extended by 12 months.

That being the case I'd go back to Axparis and tell them two things:  first that I was cancelling the contracts in respect of the returned goods for a full refund under regulations 29 and 31, and second, that in any case I had returned the goods within 14 days of delivery which is all that the law requires.

I see the first ground as the one more likely to succeed rather than arguing the toss over dates.  If Axparis want to prove that they did in fact comply with reg 31 (when the information they publish online indicates that they don't comply with it) then let them try to do so.

For the OP in future (and anybody reading this thread out of curiosity) I'll repeat what I've said before: if you are returning a distance purchase for a refund make sure you tell the seller clearly that you are exercising your legal right to cancel the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk).

DON'T just send stuff back under the seller's own returns policy without telling them the above - UNLESS the seller's returns policy gives you better terms than the regulations (eg an extended returns window).

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

jon81uk said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

jon81uk said:

This page is useful as sets out to retailers what they need to do
Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
It clearly states 
"Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason."

AXParis are wrong to state 14 days from date of order.

Sadly poorly written from the government pages.

"From" to some people could mean including the day of receipt, to others excluding the day of receipt (or 14 x 24 hour blocks from the moment of receipt). 

Would be more useful if they used the correct language of at the end of 14 days beginning the day after you receive the goods. 

Where is "from" used?
It states the refund must be offered if they've told the retailer within 14 days of receipt that they wish to cancel. As you say, it is when day one takes place that is the question, I would take it to be the day of receipt, so goods delivered on the 1st and you have to inform them by the end of the 14th.

Sorry I meant within rather than from.  

Day one is the day after receipt

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/30

(3) If the contract is a sales contract and none of paragraphs (4) to (6) applies, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

So receipt on the 1st gives until the end of the 15th to cancel. 

kinkers

Manxman_in_exile said:

I see arguing over the dates and whether 14 days has expired as a secondary issue.

Without seeing exactly what the OP told Axparis I suspect that she has not actually complied with reg 32 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) and has not yet clearly informed them that she is cancelling the contract as opposed to just returning the goods.

Looking at their T&Cs and the wording of their returns policy (which, for example, gives entirely misleading information about having to notify them within 24 hours of faulty goods etc) I'd be amazed if Axparis have complied with reg 31 which would mean that the cancellation period has been extended by 12 months.

That being the case I'd go back to Axparis and tell them two things:  first that I was cancelling the contracts in respect of the returned goods for a full refund under regulations 29 and 31, and second, that in any case I had returned the goods within 14 days of delivery which is all that the law requires.

I see the first ground as the one more likely to succeed rather than arguing the toss over dates.  If Axparis want to prove that they did in fact comply with reg 31 (when the information they publish online indicates that they don't comply with it) then let them try to do so.

For the OP in future (and anybody reading this thread out of curiosity) I'll repeat what I've said before: if you are returning a distance purchase for a refund make sure you tell the seller clearly that you are exercising your legal right to cancel the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk).

DON'T just send stuff back under the seller's own returns policy without telling them the above - UNLESS the seller's returns policy gives you better terms than the regulations (eg an extended returns window).

Thanks, this is very helpful. My first email said this:

" on Sunday the 30th of April I tried to create a return using your online portal. You can see I'm sending this not long after midnight. It told me I was unable to do this as I had gone beyond your 14 day return policy. I had actually already looked at your returns policy and it states that I can return items within 14 days of the delivery date. I've attached screenshots to support this.

My items were delivered on 17/04/23 (have also attached a screenshot to support this), the 30th of April, when I tried to create the return is still within my 14 days. There doesn't seem to be a quicker way to contact you but can you please help me to resolve this." I sent this at 00:18 on 01/05.