Plumber not replied for 7 weeks now wants payment.

mallen

Need some advice. 

I have had a loft conversion complete with bathroom. The builder got a plumber in to first and second fix the bathroom and I have paid for the first fix. All invoices and communication have been directly to the plumber. 

Since the work was done in the loft bathroom  I have had issues with the shower waste leaking into my downstairs hallway and not been able to use the shower. I have also had a hole in my outside wall where an old soil pipe was removed and not filled in. 

I have been chasing the plumber to fix this for 7 weeks with no reply. I have called, left voicemails and text once a week to chase. The builder has also “spoken” to him on several occasions and he has not contacted me. 

So, because I have not had a reply I have cut into my downstairs ceiling and fixed the issue myself, I have also repaired the hole in my house. I informed the builder this morning that I have sorted the issues myself and now the plumber has sent me and large second fix invoice with a £100 discount. 

Tbh, I’m feeling pretty pi**ed off he has not replied to any form of communication in almost two months and as soon as he is informed I have fixed his issues has billed me. 

What is the best approach to this? Not having this work completed by the plumber has caused me a lot of stress, I have had to buy materials and taken a lot own time to put this right. 

I have written a detailed invoice to bill him for my time and all materials purchased and deduct this from his invoice.. I am planning to call him tomorrow and explain this to him before emailing it over. 

tightauldgit

If you can show reasonable genuine costs to fix his defects then I think you are within your rights to deduct this from his invoice but don't take the P. Materials at cost, a small sensible charge for your time - I think that's OK. It might have made sense to have another contractor have looked at the work and given you a quote to fix it because I guess he could now claim that his work was fine and none of the remedial work was needed. 

You do still need to pay him for the work done though and you shouldn't be using your costs to punish him for your unhappiness or to get compensation for your stress or inconvenience. 

mallen

tightauldgit said:

If you can show reasonable genuine costs to fix his defects then I think you are within your rights to deduct this from his invoice but don't take the P. Materials at cost, a small sensible charge for your time - I think that's OK. It might have made sense to have another contractor have looked at the work and given you a quote to fix it because I guess he could now claim that his work was fine and none of the remedial work was needed. 

You do still need to pay him for the work done though and you shouldn't be using your costs to punish him for your unhappiness or to get compensation for your stress or inconvenience. 

I have calculated the material costs exactly. The main factor to the charge to him would be my time. I’ve spent 12 hours finding the leak, fixing the issue, plastering the ceiling, painting the ceiling, finishing off the soil pipe outside on my ladder, filling the old soil pipe hole from the previous toilet he removed and tidying up. 

I am by no means a professional at any of these tasks and have completed them as quickly as I could. 

In regards to paying him for the work he has completed should my invoice not be used to reduce his? 

I do not want to be in a position where I pay him and then have to chase for my costs. 

Ray-von

Mallen i would not be so fast as to roll over and just pay him - look at all options  - all the better if you evidence - photos - and hopefully he has given a full breakdown on his arrival at his final invoice 

mallen

Ray-von said:

Mallen i would not be so fast as to roll over and just pay him - look at all options  - all the better if you evidence - photos - and hopefully he has given a full breakdown on his arrival at his final invoice 

I am definitely not going to be rolling over. His invoice states £305 materials which is not itemised and considering I supplied the shower, toilet, sink etc and he did no tiling work is questionable. He did source a shower and sink waste, single soil pipe branch and some pipe for waste runs. 

Also £450 for labour but no details on amount of time he worked. 

I will be requesting a full break down of his invoice including all materials purchased and hourly rate. 

I have taken videos and photos throughout all my work of finding the leak and making everything right. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

Where a service doesn't conform to the contract you are entitled to a repeat performance within a reasonable time, as the trader didn't do this (7 weeks to fix a leak is unreasonable in anyone's book and the fact they just ignored you counts against them) then you are entitled to a price reduction.

A price reduction is usually the difference between the contract price and what was performed, ideally you'd get another tradesperson to do the repair and deduct that cost from the bill. 

I would raise a possible question of whether the 12 hours to your would be equal to 12 hours of a professional (no offence intended by that, just being objective ) 

If his bill for 2nd fix is £755 before the £100 discount I'd be temped to pay half, a busy plumber shouldn't have time to take a customer to small claims over £270 on a poorly done job. 

mallen

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Hello OP

Where a service doesn't conform to the contract you are entitled to a repeat performance within a reasonable time, as the trader didn't do this (7 weeks to fix a leak is unreasonable in anyone's book and the fact they just ignored you counts against them) then you are entitled to a price reduction.

A price reduction is usually the difference between the contract price and what was performed, ideally you'd get another tradesperson to do the repair and deduct that cost from the bill. 

I would raise a possible question of whether the 12 hours to your would be equal to 12 hours of a professional (no offence intended by that, just being objective ) 

If his bill for 2nd fix is £755 before the £100 discount I'd be temped to pay half, a busy plumber shouldn't have time to take a customer to small claims over £270 on a poorly done job. 

Thanks for the reply. 

Do you think I should give him a call (what’s the chances he answers this time) and explain what it has cost me to put things right or just send over an email detailing it all?

As for the time spent fixing all of this, like I said I’m no professional but have worked effectively and efficiently as capable  

To put all this right I would have had to hire a plumber, plasterer and painter and decorator so I believe I have probably saved him further reduction by competing it myself. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Something in writing (text, email, messenger, etc) would probably be best so there's a record. 

This details your rights when a service isn't carried out correctly:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/4/crossheading/what-remedies-are-there-if-statutory-rights-under-a-services-contract-are-not-met/enacted

55Right to repeat performance

(1)The right to require repeat performance is a right to require the trader to perform the service again, to the extent necessary to complete its performance in conformity with the contract.

(2)If the consumer requires such repeat performance, the trader—

(a)must provide it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer; and

(b)must bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour or materials).

....

(1)The right to a price reduction is the right to require the trader to reduce the price to the consumer by an appropriate amount (including the right to receive a refund for anything already paid above the reduced amount).

(2)The amount of the reduction may, where appropriate, be the full amount of the price.

(3)A consumer who has that right and the right to require repeat performance is only entitled to a price reduction in one of these situations—

(a)because of section 55(3) the consumer cannot require repeat performance; or

(b)the consumer has required repeat performance, but the trader is in breach of the requirement of section 55(2)(a) to do it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

Perhaps start of with something simple to say you are only paying £x due to the leak and if the plumber questions it or isn't happy then you can point out why you'd be entitled to pay less with the above if you wish. 

Hopefully they just accept whatever you pay without making a fuss  

km1500

if it's for me I would charge your 12 hours at £10 an hour plus materials so deduct £120 plus materials from his invoice 

mallen

km1500 said:

if it's for me I would charge your 12 hours at £10 an hour plus materials so deduct £120 plus materials from his invoice 

£10 ph? Could earn more than that stacking shelves Considering he is charging me around £35 ph I will be billing him similar. 

Aylesbury_Duck

mallen said:

km1500 said:

if it's for me I would charge your 12 hours at £10 an hour plus materials so deduct £120 plus materials from his invoice 

£10 ph? Could earn more than that stacking shelves Considering he is charging me around £35 ph I will be billing him similar. 

That's unrealistic, you (should have been) paying for his time AND expertise.  You've spent the former, but not the latter.  You need to be sensible, or risk not getting the right result.