Neighbour disputes in Scottish social housing.

dekaspace1

Been here since summer last year, a complication is we have a "communal" garden except neighbour and HA has said there has been an "agreement" with former tenants that the garden is split into 2 and each property has its own half, and neighbours fenced off their portion.

When I got a puppy once she was ill during night (back when she went out 3-6 times a night) and this was winter so I couldn't see in pitch black and left a dog mess overnight for neighbours to hit my door at 8am screaming at me, then a few days later their grandson was visiting and told me to clean up after my dog "or else" and he saw me a week or two later and made the same threat.

Neighbour has dictated things I can and can't do since day 1, telling me I am not allowed in (my) garden with dog as its communal (despite the "agreement") they had a rickety old shed in "my" half of garden when I moved in and told me to keep it as they never used it only for it to end up full of their junk, whenever they do gardening they take the mud and put it in wheelbarrow and dump it on my half, they have their bins on "my" half, they leave any dead plants/pots in my half.

Over Easter I was putting a plaque outside my door and my screwdriver fell out of my hands and into "their" garden and I just went into it to get it, they were away at time and when they came home the wife came to my door screaming how I was trespassing in THEIR garden and how I wasn't allowed in it, at the time I was also putting up a fence and she screamed at me how it was an eyesore, dangerous and to rip it down or she will tell the landlord.

I refused and 2 days later I had a knock on my door at 6am (the time they wake) no one there but all the posts bar 1 had been ripped out of the ground and of course when I saw them later in day they noticed and told me this means the fence is dangerous and so I need to rip fence down, I said I would leave it up and next day I had phone call from the landlord saying they bad a complaint about my fence being dangerous so they attended and said it was ok, the day after that at lunchtime fence was still up and neighbours were away, they came back and under 5 minutes later they "witnessed" the fence blowing down.

They have a camera in "their" front garden yet both times it "wasn't working" when these things happened yet somehow in winter when I took dog out at midnight they could see I was wearing shorts and t shirt and told me off saying "what if kids saw you"

Going back to the communal part, they "agreed" with previous tenants that the gardens are split not shared but I never agreed to this, to be fair the landlord did say did I have a problem with that when I rang to complain today and I said I wasn't sure but I never agreed in the first place, just as I never agreed to have them put sheds or greenhouses, gazebos, picnic tables in their side.

I don't know what to do here apart from rock the boat, if I let it slide I will be stressed out and harassed, if I retaliate even if its report them to landlord and/or anti social I will have to live with the consequences.

macman

A lot of this is really not relevant. What does your TA say about the sharing/split of the garden area? That is what determines the access. You are not bound by some informal agreement made by a previous tenant.

dekaspace1

macman said:

A lot of this is really not relevant. What does your TA say about the sharing/split of the garden area? That is what determines the access. You are not bound by some informal agreement made by a previous tenant.

It wasn't purely a legal post, though all I know is a informal agreement has been made with previous tenants.

Part of the reason was what is acceptable either way, if its communal have I done anything bad, same for if its not and it being a gray area make any difference?

Will need to look out for the TA but when I viewed the housing advisor said it was a agreement between former tenants, I never made a fuss at the time as the neighbour said they would cut all the grass the same reason I didn't mind them having a junky old shed on my side that had the mower in. (slightly off topic just mentions background)

theartfullodger

Follow the HA complaints/dispute process - on the web

macman

As I said, you are not bound by any informal agreement made between previous tenants, or something casually mentioned to you when you viewed the property. The TA is the legal and binding contract that determines the access to the garden. If there is nothing in writing to say that garden has been divided, then you have free access to all of it, and your neighbour presumably can't fence it off or put permanent structures onto it.
If the HA wanted to formalise this apparent de-facto division, then they had the opportunity to do so when they granted you the tenancy. They failed to do so.
You will of course make yourself extremely unpopular with your neighbour if you if you pursue this, but from what you have said, that bridge has already been burned. 

_Penny_Dreadful

dekaspace1 said:

Been here since summer last year, a complication is we have a "communal" garden except neighbour and HA has said there has been an "agreement" with former tenants that the garden is split into 2 and each property has its own half, and neighbours fenced off their portion.

When I got a puppy once she was ill during night (back when she went out 3-6 times a night) and this was winter so I couldn't see in pitch black and left a dog mess overnight for neighbours to hit my door at 8am screaming at me, then a few days later their grandson was visiting and told me to clean up after my dog "or else" and he saw me a week or two later and made the same threat.

Neighbour has dictated things I can and can't do since day 1, telling me I am not allowed in (my) garden with dog as its communal (despite the "agreement") they had a rickety old shed in "my" half of garden when I moved in and told me to keep it as they never used it only for it to end up full of their junk, whenever they do gardening they take the mud and put it in wheelbarrow and dump it on my half, they have their bins on "my" half, they leave any dead plants/pots in my half.

Over Easter I was putting a plaque outside my door and my screwdriver fell out of my hands and into "their" garden and I just went into it to get it, they were away at time and when they came home the wife came to my door screaming how I was trespassing in THEIR garden and how I wasn't allowed in it, at the time I was also putting up a fence and she screamed at me how it was an eyesore, dangerous and to rip it down or she will tell the landlord.

I refused and 2 days later I had a knock on my door at 6am (the time they wake) no one there but all the posts bar 1 had been ripped out of the ground and of course when I saw them later in day they noticed and told me this means the fence is dangerous and so I need to rip fence down, I said I would leave it up and next day I had phone call from the landlord saying they bad a complaint about my fence being dangerous so they attended and said it was ok, the day after that at lunchtime fence was still up and neighbours were away, they came back and under 5 minutes later they "witnessed" the fence blowing down.

They have a camera in "their" front garden yet both times it "wasn't working" when these things happened yet somehow in winter when I took dog out at midnight they could see I was wearing shorts and t shirt and told me off saying "what if kids saw you"

Going back to the communal part, they "agreed" with previous tenants that the gardens are split not shared but I never agreed to this, to be fair the landlord did say did I have a problem with that when I rang to complain today and I said I wasn't sure but I never agreed in the first place, just as I never agreed to have them put sheds or greenhouses, gazebos, picnic tables in their side.

I don't know what to do here apart from rock the boat, if I let it slide I will be stressed out and harassed, if I retaliate even if its report them to landlord and/or anti social I will have to live with the consequences.

This sounds very familiar and "meatball sized piece of dog poo," has come to mind.

You say it is not a legal problem but it mostly is as the tenancy agreements for both properties state, if I remember correctly, that the garden is communal.  There might have been some informal arrangement between previous occupants to split the garden but legally it remains communal.  I think your best course of action might be to suggest mediation with your neighbours as on one hand I can see why the neighbours don't want the garden turned into a dog's latrine and on the other they can't have it both ways, either the garden is treated as communal or not.  

deannagone

Yes, I remember the previous thread from months ago too.  It seems to have been removed.

I remember you posting that you had started to let the dog relieve itself in the front garden rather than at the back one (which had no lighting) and the neighbours complained about you not clearing up the poop immediately.  I remember posting that maybe you could consider putting cheap solar lights in the back garden as it seemed there was more privacy in the back garden.  I don't remember any mention of fencing issues mentioned in this post though, although that could be faults in my memory.  .

BTW looking at your other posts, I had similar issues with barking when I was on the phone (not biting though) and I never sorted it completely.  I'd have to make phone calls in another room from the dog when he was distracting. Sitting the dog on my lap did help, but not completely. Distracting with chews (ones that would take some work to chew) did also help.  

Youtube has some very helpful videos on dog training.  And keeping the dog entertained throughout the day with training, games, walks etc helped as well. With my dog, it seemed to be an anxiety thing.

YoungBlueEyes

No I think the fence issues are new, I remember the other thread but don't remember anything about fences.

Edit - unless my memory is being tricky, too!

dekaspace1

Fencing issues are new as its expensive to put it up and was only because another neighbour had spare fencing that I was getting it put up.

In the past I used to let dog in garden especially during night in the cold months as she couldn't hold it in and clean up straight away, nowadays she has gone the opposite way and can hold it in and refuses to go in garden and I have to take her to a field near me that was when the first issue of communal/separate gardens came in i.e they said it was my garden yet complained as dog was going in a communal garden.

Dog is much better in general now and when I am on phone, she can get worked up though its more a general noise problem now i.e she hears a car horn, or someone at door, or diy, grass cutting for outdoor noises (even though we are indoors) indoors its things like the printer, my electric recliner basically anything with a loud motorized noise, she does try and attack my vacumn cleaner but thats normal for dogs.

EDIT - Also when I got permission for my fence to go up landlord said when I move it would have to be removed (or I would be billed) so I don't know if thats also relevant.

dekaspace1

Spoke to HA yesterday mentioning issues, they said they would investigate the camera issue.

Heard neighbour complain to another today about how I reported them and how they had the HA in their garden and overall complaining about me then talking about my "overgrown maze of a garden" and how they told me about it also because I haven't finished putting up fence so part of it is at the back (on my "side" by the way) and the rubbish at side of shed (that was there when I moved in and they have told me belonged to former tenant)

I admit I was annoyed so phoned HA back and the person I spoke to was the one who showed me the property and I forgot to say when showing me she herself told me they were the type that would take over your life if you let them, and when I mentioned we had a garden dispute she confirmed it was just an agreement and even if they agreed to cut the grass that gives them no right to dictate what goes on in it and to decide part is theirs, so I didn't even mention they told me they weren't going to cut grass, she basically confirmed she witnessed them saying they would cut it all.

She just said if they try and bully me again (yes she used the word bully) to just tell them to contact the HA and close the door on them.

I have bought a lawnmower by the way, paid a friend to pick one up I got cheap on Gumtree.

EDIT - Just heard them complain to another neighbour about me having things in my window as people will think its their house! The items in question? a few dvd boxsets and games.

dekaspace1

No one has responded since but an update - I heard them complain again today this time to their son about me and started calling me fat (swear word) and other insults so I had enough and shouted out and called them "sad old (swear word"

Their son started shouting abuse at me so I went outside and said they have been harassing me since I moved in and at first the son said "no you have been harassing them" and so did the neighbours and I said "they have been telling me what I can and can't do since the day I moved in, complained about me for any reason to the landlord, bad mouth me to neighbours" at which point the male neighbour started shouting "you haven't cut the grass in your garden, its a state" etc and I said "I work and I don't drive, I can't just go out and buy a mower, and I live upstairs so I need to get a petrol one or battery one, you don't have that issue"  It basically went back and forth but the son did tell his parents to calm down and said just let me cut the grass and take it from there, but the neighbours continued and said its a mess as I let the dog go in the garden (she hasn't gone there in around 3-4 months as she goes to field now)

They kept claiming the front and back is THEIR garden so I mentioned its not its communal, and if the gardens were split why are their bins on my side and they went "no thats a communal bin area" yet the same area they have complained about me not cutting.

I again mentioned I work and dont drive and they claimed I DONT work (I work from home theres a difference) after a bit more heat where I mentioned I already bought a mower it just hasn't arrived yet (I hope its not gone missing btw) they questioned what type of mower I bought saying I need a certain one.

He also kept bringing in that he has been there over 20 years as if that meant he had more rights, and how not a single neighbour in the past has complained about him, then tried turning it around on me saying I must of left my last place as I argued with neighbours.

Eventually he said he would strim the grass so I can mow it and we are "friends" again.

2 hours later another neighbour comes by and my neighbour spent 45 minutes talking about me and at first saying "watch what you say, the guy upstairs may listen and use it against you" then started saying again about "their" garden and how disgusting my garden is, then lied/half truthed about the bins at back saying its a communal area and I said it was mine, complained that they had to move front door camera as I was paranoid and had "mental health issues" then went on about "people like me who get things for free from government" and how unfair it is and how they worked all their lives, and basic twisting actual things I said and acting the victim.

What was funny though they said more than once they want to get the plans to prove its their garden and how the bin area is communal, well if they do so I wonder if they will admit its not their garden.

I wanted to take dog out but didn't want to do it with my neighbour and other neighbours who they are good friends with to intimidate me, eventually when other neighbours left I took dog out and my neighbours just stared at me, when I brought dog back and got in they started talking about me again!

I will tell HA tomorrow but its at the point I think anti social need to be involved as this is harassment especially if they are trying to turn other neighbours against me.