SAGA Magazine lifetime subscription - compulsory shift to digital format

Alderbank

Money_Grabber13579 said:

RefluentBeans said:

km1500 said:

I think that argument would have more weight if Saga said that they were discontinuing the printed version completely and everything was moving online

however what they have said is that you can now only get the online copy and if you want to printed copy you now have to pay for it

This is the argument I’ve seen a few times. It’s the requirement of them fulfilling the contract of access to news articles, or specific access to news articles. If the terms don’t state that they must provide a printed copy of the magazine then I don’t see how they’re not fulfilling their side of the contract. 

Just because the company also offers a printed yearly subscription doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to that. You asked Saga to give you a lifetime subscription of their magazine, and didn’t state the medium. They’re still living up to their contract. 

Just because a paper version still exists, doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to it. 

The way I see this going is that if Saga gets taken to court, and they lose you’ll get some minute minute amount of money, and no access to the online version. Or if there is a version of the T/C’s which stipulates that they provide the printed version of the magazine, those people (and just those people) who agreed to those terms will get the printed version. 

Again, I don’t really see how they’ve neglected consumer rights here. To me, the online version is going to be a superior version anyway with the amount of added value from first party resources (like video etc) and third party resources (like accessibility tools) that simply do not exist for printed medium. 

But there was no need to state the medium when the subscription because digital versions hadn’t been invented. Therefore, I think...

Of course they had.
Plenty of magazines were published digitally on CD-ROM in the 1990s. Digital discs were seen then as the future of publishing, only killed off later by the rise of the internet.

Mogsie3f2

RefluentBeans said:

Having monthly printed copies was never actually written into your T/C. There has been no proof of that 

They promised that my copy would be delivered to my door. If they want to save on printing and send a CD then let them do so! However I want it to my door!  My computer is nowhere near my door. 

mr_stripey

RefluentBeans said:

I’ve read this for a while. And it keeps popping back up. So here’s a controversial take. 

Actually I dpn't think this is a controversial take - it is the common sense take rather than the hysterical, entitled "I want my magazine for ever" take.

RefluentBeans

Mogsie3f2 said:

RefluentBeans said:

Having monthly printed copies was never actually written into your T/C. There has been no proof of that 

They promised that my copy would be delivered to my door. If they want to save on printing and send a CD then let them do so! However I want it to my door!  My computer is nowhere near my door. 

‘To your door’ is definitely not a concrete legal term, and sounds more colloquial than legalese. I would argue an email is the same as delivering to your door, and think it’s a valid argument to be had. 

RefluentBeans

mr_stripey said:

RefluentBeans said:

I’ve read this for a while. And it keeps popping back up. So here’s a controversial take. 

Actually I dpn't think this is a controversial take - it is the common sense take rather than the hysterical, entitled "I want my magazine for ever" take.

Glad it’s not just me. I just feel this is the typical didn’t actually read the terms and now threatening to sue over what people thought was in the terms. Lifetime products are a nightmare. Especially those that continue to deliver goods over time, with an actual cost. You see it all the time in software which used to have in perpetuity licenses. But easier to get around with sunsetting a version. 

Either way, I feel this is a very vocal minority and clearly Saga aren’t going to back down. I wish them luck if they sue, they’ll be in for an uphill battle. And can’t imagine that they’ll get the specific performance if they win, likely just a sub £100 refund before legal expenses. If they win. 

jon81uk

RefluentBeans said:

mr_stripey said:

RefluentBeans said:

I’ve read this for a while. And it keeps popping back up. So here’s a controversial take. 

Actually I dpn't think this is a controversial take - it is the common sense take rather than the hysterical, entitled "I want my magazine for ever" take.

Glad it’s not just me. I just feel this is the typical didn’t actually read the terms and now threatening to sue over what people thought was in the terms. Lifetime products are a nightmare. Especially those that continue to deliver goods over time, with an actual cost. You see it all the time in software which used to have in perpetuity licenses. But easier to get around with sunsetting a version. 

Either way, I feel this is a very vocal minority and clearly Saga aren’t going to back down. I wish them luck if they sue, they’ll be in for an uphill battle. And can’t imagine that they’ll get the specific performance if they win, likely just a sub £100 refund before legal expenses. If they win. 

I don't think this is a case of people not reading the terms, its Saga not clearly setting the terms. The terms didn't specify the format of the subscription, therefore it is reasonable to expect it to continue in the format available at the time the subscription was taken out.

eskbanker

jon81uk said:

I don't think this is a case of people not reading the terms, its Saga not clearly setting the terms. The terms didn't specify the format of the subscription, therefore it is reasonable to expect it to continue in the format available at the time the subscription was taken out.

I think it's a mixture of people not reading the terms and them not being clearly documented - as I recall there was a vocal poster earlier in the thread who was adamant that they'd expressly been promised a paper copy of the magazine, but when challenged on this was unable to substantiate that claim!

dobbles

The letter from Saga. And don't forget we paid for this membership.

RefluentBeans

dobbles said:

The letter from Saga. And don't forget we paid for this membership.

So this is the same as what’s been previously said - no sign of printed magazines. Just 12 copies a year. Which can be online. Glad to see an original copy, finally. 

dobbles

I think it very unlikely that those who died within a few years of taking out membership and were promised the magazine for life had their estates refunded by Saga; it would have taken the profits it made from these members! (I am not suggesting that they should have had a refund; they took a risk, and so did Saga. Saga should honour its promise).

(Those people who have made comments about the meaning of 'lifetime', my two letters did not mention this word! They mentioned receiving a copy for life!).