MONTHLY DIRECT DEBITS AND WHAT IS A REASONABLE AMOUNT TO BE IN DEBT IN MAY

mmmmikey

I really don't understand what the issue is here.

If anyone wants to pay by VADD they have a number of options that will give them just that. All they need to do is switch to a supplier that offers that as a payment option, and there are several to choose from. Ofgem regulation has made that switch painfully simple - my own recent switch involved no more than entering my postcode and a few very basic details in a web form and the switch was completed in 2 days. Anyone who is sufficiently clued up to understand the benefits (to them) of VADD is sufficiently clued up to switch. And the thing that catches people out in other circumstances (can't switch because I'm in debt) doesn't apply here because if you can't pay your existing supplier what you owe them in order to switch you couldn't pay them what you owe them in order to move onto their VADD payment option.

So what is the issue here?

Chrysalis

mmmmikey said:

I really don't understand what the issue is here.

If anyone wants to pay by VADD they have a number of options that will give them just that. All they need to do is switch to a supplier that offers that as a payment option, and there are several to choose from. Ofgem regulation has made that switch painfully simple - my own recent switch involved no more than entering my postcode and a few very basic details in a web form and the switch was completed in 2 days. Anyone who is sufficiently clued up to understand the benefits (to them) of VADD is sufficiently clued up to switch. And the thing that catches people out in other circumstances (can't switch because I'm in debt) doesn't apply here because if you can't pay your existing supplier what you owe them in order to switch you couldn't pay them what you owe them in order to move onto their VADD payment option.

So what is the issue here?

The issue I suppose is you really shouldnt have to be switching supplier for such a trivial thing.

bristolleedsfan

Chrysalis said:

MWT said:

BikingBud said:

Especially as unlike quarterly billing so many will be paying against an estimate. 

That is entirely in the hands of the customers...

Can supply a manual reading whenever they want with most suppliers, or just install a smart meter, the vast majority of which will work just fine to deliver accurate meter readings.

Back when Octopus had their beta feature up which showed their calculations per month, it reported they assume as per typical usage patterns usage increases in the winter so as such they dont actually use your previous history fully, but look at summer usage then apply a modifier in the winter months, as I fall outside of that typical usage pattern its broken down.  The prediction isnt as crazy as it was last year though.

If you are referring to Balance forecast tool, merely been moved, now found click change my payments then click edit amount.

BikingBud

Is this what you are looking for: 18 May at 9:36PM

MWT

Chrysalis said:

So on FDD even if you on a smart meter or supplying regular readings, the 12 months usage will still be an estimate for calculating the size of your payments

... for calculating the suggested size of the payments though, and in my experience at least Octopus have never insisted that you use their suggested payment amount...

There are anomalies in the way those figures are calculated, but if they don't look right to you then don't use them...

mmmmikey

Chrysalis said:

mmmmikey said:

I really don't understand what the issue is here.

If anyone wants to pay by VADD they have a number of options that will give them just that. All they need to do is switch to a supplier that offers that as a payment option, and there are several to choose from. Ofgem regulation has made that switch painfully simple - my own recent switch involved no more than entering my postcode and a few very basic details in a web form and the switch was completed in 2 days. Anyone who is sufficiently clued up to understand the benefits (to them) of VADD is sufficiently clued up to switch. And the thing that catches people out in other circumstances (can't switch because I'm in debt) doesn't apply here because if you can't pay your existing supplier what you owe themo in order to switch you couldn't pay them what you owe them in order to move onto their VADD payment option.

So what is the issue here?

The issue I suppose is you really shouldnt have to be switching supplier for such a trivial thing.

Sorry @chrysalis I'm still not really following you on this although I do know from your posts on other threads that we see eye to eye on many things. So please take my question at face value.

Are you saying that you think this is an issue that warrants Ofgem intervention or are you saying it is trivial? Surely it can't be both? 

Chrysalis

mmmmikey said:

Chrysalis said:

mmmmikey said:

I really don't understand what the issue is here.

If anyone wants to pay by VADD they have a number of options that will give them just that. All they need to do is switch to a supplier that offers that as a payment option, and there are several to choose from. Ofgem regulation has made that switch painfully simple - my own recent switch involved no more than entering my postcode and a few very basic details in a web form and the switch was completed in 2 days. Anyone who is sufficiently clued up to understand the benefits (to them) of VADD is sufficiently clued up to switch. And the thing that catches people out in other circumstances (can't switch because I'm in debt) doesn't apply here because if you can't pay your existing supplier what you owe themo in order to switch you couldn't pay them what you owe them in order to move onto their VADD payment option.

So what is the issue here?

The issue I suppose is you really shouldnt have to be switching supplier for such a trivial thing.

Sorry @chrysalis I'm still not really following you on this although I do know from your posts on other threads that we see eye to eye on many things. So please take my question at face value.

Are you saying that you think this is an issue that warrants Ofgem intervention or are you saying it is trivial? Surely it can't be both? 

I mean it should be trivial for the suppliers to implement, I dont think its a priority issue for Ofgem though, but rather it would be one of the easiest changes they could make.  If that makes sense.

Likely the way Ofgem look at it is that partially due to customer ignorance (a ton of people wont even be aware of VADD as an option) and a lack of customers asking for it in large numbers, it just wouldnt warrant attention.

At one point I had a much stronger view point, many months ago on here I was suggesting FDD be scrapped, but I have accepted if most people like FDD then it is to stay.  My views do change as I always listen to opposing view points and take on what people are saying.

So for me its a kind of it would be nice for Ofgem to do it, but not an urgent issue.

Your point did make some sense, you can move if a company refuses to allow it, and then its a kind of customer decides with their feet.  Thats why I didnt reply strongly to your post.

mmmmikey

Thanks for the reply - makes sense to me now.

Incidentally, in regards to FDD, my view is that it should be phased out in favour of Smart Prepayment tariffs, which would give people much the same thing given the direction of travel of FDD seems to be to put you in a position where you're always paying in advance. The advantage of Smart Prepayment is that it is much more obvious what you're doing - building up credit on the meter in the summer to pay for the winter - just like the old days of jars on the mantlepiece. It's only a small step from there to people putting the same amount in a savings account if they prefer.

And the energy company could simply suggest an amount to overpay in the summer based on some industry wide algorithm and leave it to people to decide for themselves whether to pay more or less. I'd also expect Smart Prepayment rates to be discounted to reflect the lower cost to the energy companies, and some of them are already doing that.

Chrysalis

Interesting idea, if I understand you right, you top up during low usage periods (often the summer for people) more than you need so the credit balance is gradually growing, then you have a buffer to help ride through the winter, and its very visible whats going on, as every time you top up you can actually see if you spending more or less than expected which raises awareness to energy usage and costs.

matt_drummer

mmmmikey said:

Thanks for the reply - makes sense to me now.

Incidentally, in regards to FDD, my view is that it should be phased out in favour of Smart Prepayment tariffs, which would give people much the same thing given the direction of travel of FDD seems to be to put you in a position where you're always paying in advance. The advantage of Smart Prepayment is that it is much more obvious what you're doing - building up credit on the meter in the summer to pay for the winter - just like the old days of jars on the mantlepiece. It's only a small step from there to people putting the same amount in a savings account if they prefer.

And the energy company could simply suggest an amount to overpay in the summer based on some industry wide algorithm and leave it to people to decide for themselves whether to pay more or less. I'd also expect Smart Prepayment rates to be discounted to reflect the lower cost to the energy companies, and some of them are already doing that.

It sounds identical to a fixed direct debit to me.

What is the difference?

The energy company is still being paid in advance?