7.0% actually 3.69%?

retiringtoosoon

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

Dunno. It’s back on page 8

Bridlington1

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

A shortcut would be to click on their profile and find the post in their replies. Alternatively click this link:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059515/#Comment_80059515

OceanSound

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

A shortcut would be to click on their profile and find the post in their replies. Alternatively click this link:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059515/#Comment_80059515

Take it the link you posted you got by clicking on @zagfles's profile. I did try it via the user profile method before posting my previous comment. However, because we are talking about a forumite that posts many comments, it is sometimes necessary to access their profile, click on 'replies' then from the webpage that loads click on 'more comments' at the bottom of the page. 

I did 'find' for 'See that' (the starting text of his comment) without clicking the 'more comments' so computer did not find the comment in question.

Seems rather long winded anyway to access comment via forumite profile. Most other forums have a way of clicking on a hyperlink within the post (in this case @retiringtoosoon's post) then I land on zagfles's post (as if by magic - it's not actually - there's some clever linking going on in the background!)

Bridlington1

OceanSound said:

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

A shortcut would be to click on their profile and find the post in their replies. Alternatively click this link:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059515/#Comment_80059515

Take it the link you posted you got by clicking on @zagfles's profile. I did try it via the user profile method before posting my previous comment. However, because we are talking about a forumite that posts many comments, it is sometimes necessary to access their profile, click on 'replies' then from the webpage that loads click on 'more comments' at the bottom of the page. 

I did 'find' for 'See that' (the starting text of his comment) without clicking the 'more comments' so computer did not find the comment in question.

Seems rather long winded anyway to access comment via forumite profile. Most other forums have a way of clicking on a hyperlink within the post (in this case @retiringtoosoon's post) then I land on zagfles's post (as if by magic - it's not actually - there's some clever linking going on in the background!)

I clicked on retiringtoosoon's profile. When I checked a few minutes ago it was post No. 4 I think, which would've been quicker than re-reading half of this thread again to find the post. 

OceanSound

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

A shortcut would be to click on their profile and find the post in their replies. Alternatively click this link:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059515/#Comment_80059515

The comment (post) in the link you posted is not the post I was looking for by the way. Correct link is: 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059875#Comment_80059875

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

A shortcut would be to click on their profile and find the post in their replies. Alternatively click this link:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059515/#Comment_80059515

Take it the link you posted you got by clicking on @zagfles's profile. I did try it via the user profile method before posting my previous comment. However, because we are talking about a forumite that posts many comments, it is sometimes necessary to access their profile, click on 'replies' then from the webpage that loads click on 'more comments' at the bottom of the page. 

I did 'find' for 'See that' (the starting text of his comment) without clicking the 'more comments' so computer did not find the comment in question.

Seems rather long winded anyway to access comment via forumite profile. Most other forums have a way of clicking on a hyperlink within the post (in this case @retiringtoosoon's post) then I land on zagfles's post (as if by magic - it's not actually - there's some clever linking going on in the background!)

I clicked on retiringtoosoon's profile. When I checked a few minutes ago it was post No. 4 I think, which would've been quicker than re-reading half of this thread again to find the post. 

You mean, you read retiringtoosoon's comment that says zagfles's comment is on page 8? retiringtoosoon posted that comment after I had spent a while going through the thread and asked if there was quicker way. So unless retiringtoosoon had access to a time machine and went back in time and made that comment, it wouldn't have been useful to me (to reduce or prevent hunting around for zagfles's post earlier).

retiringtoosoon

OceanSound said:

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

A shortcut would be to click on their profile and find the post in their replies. Alternatively click this link:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059515/#Comment_80059515

The comment (post) in the link you posted is not the post I was looking for by the way. Correct link is: 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059875#Comment_80059875

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

Bridlington1 said:

OceanSound said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

retiringtoosoon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

Beddie said:

Millyonare said:

The UK should really make all pupils 14-16yo do a GCSE in Arithmetic -- and not leave school until they achieve grade 4 / C or better.

For the vast majority of employees and employers, simple arithmetic is all the maths they will mostly ever need to use in work or home or for personal finances.

Mandatory GCSE Arithmetic would noticeably improve UK productivity.

I get your point, but not everyone is capable of being good at arithmetic. In the same way I cannot draw or paint, others cannot work with numbers. And just forcing them will put them off for life. There should be plenty of encouraging, yes, and also schools should do realistic scenarios e.g. wages, tax, renting, buying a house etc. instead of the "dry" maths mostly taught. Have it as a project, not just a lesson.

Yes, stuff like algebra is a good example. It can be used for all sorts of useful things, I've just used it to work out how much I should be spending on my Barclaycard to get best value from the balance transfer I've just done. But most people just learn it at school then forget about it because they don't see the practical use for it, because it was never taught in the context of real life scenarios.

Basic algebra is wonderfully applicable as it only requires logic. Recently we wanted to determine whether it was worth 'renewing' LBG Regular Savers to their higher rates, which resulted in generic formulas. Simplifying can take a bit of arithmetic training and perhaps an affinity for numbers, but simplifying isn't strictly necessary with calculators doing the heavy lifting.

Not sure about only logic, you do need a bit of arithmetric training. Rearranging an equation is usually as hard or harder than "simplifying", and you can't use a (normal) calculator for that, and you do need to rearrange when the value you're resolving for is on both sides of the equation. That doesn't seem to be the case with your regular saver formula, so although it looks complicated it is probably simpler in that the value you are calculating is only on one side of the formula, so no rearranging is necessary.

The Barclaycard one is a fairly simple example of what I'm talking about. The idea is I want best value from the balance transfer I've done. Normally with balance transfers you pay min payment every month which reduces the amount you're getting at 0% every month, so you don't get full value of the interest free credit on the whole amount for the whole period.

But with Barclaycard, you can spend and if that spending is paid off then no interest is charged on the spending (not the case with some other cards).

Min payment is 2.25% of the total of spending and balance transfer. So you need to spend enough so that 2.25% of the spending plus balance transfer equals the spending. So spending is on both sides of the formula, and spending is what you want to know.

So eg I've done a balance transfer (inc fee) of £5000. How much do I need to spend? If s is spend then

(5000+s)*0.0225=s

5000*0.0225 + 0.0225s = s

5000*0.0225 = s(1-0.0225)

s = 5000*0.0225/(1-0.0225)

s = 115.09

Confirm that 5115.09 * 0.0225 = 115.09

Booooooorrrrrring!

See that's the problem with some people and maths, as touched on earlier. Maths is seen as boring, being bad at maths is like a badge of honour, "I'm not a boring geek". They think it makes them look more interesting.

So even on page 8 of a thread discussing technical details of interest calculation, on a site called "moneysavingexpert" where the technicalities of saving money are (or should be) the main topic of discussion, someone feels the need to call a bit of simple algebra used to illustrate a point "boring".

Loads of threads here and other places go in depth on details on all sorts of stuff most people would find boring, but not many people feel the need to post "Booooooorrrrrring". But maths seems to be an exception...perhaps along with trainspotting where people seem to enjoy making others feel a freak for being interested in something most people would find boring.

Anyway, I don't care if I've bored anyone. Move along, go read a more interesting site. I like maths and put it to practical use all the time, the only reason I can afford to retire early is a good understanding of finance and maths, and I will discuss it here even if some people find it boring.

Feel free to reply with a Tw*tter style one liner which you think makes you sound interesting.

Hey, I’ve got a masters degree in maths and physics. It’s still boooooorrring 😝

How do I access the post you're replying to in order to give them thanks - other than going through each and every page? (which I don't particularly mind had I not been through every page already. Going through them for the umpteenth time every time a forumite replies and I want to see the original post they are replying to is boooooooring!)

A shortcut would be to click on their profile and find the post in their replies. Alternatively click this link:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80059515/#Comment_80059515

Take it the link you posted you got by clicking on @zagfles's profile. I did try it via the user profile method before posting my previous comment. However, because we are talking about a forumite that posts many comments, it is sometimes necessary to access their profile, click on 'replies' then from the webpage that loads click on 'more comments' at the bottom of the page. 

I did 'find' for 'See that' (the starting text of his comment) without clicking the 'more comments' so computer did not find the comment in question.

Seems rather long winded anyway to access comment via forumite profile. Most other forums have a way of clicking on a hyperlink within the post (in this case @retiringtoosoon's post) then I land on zagfles's post (as if by magic - it's not actually - there's some clever linking going on in the background!)

I clicked on retiringtoosoon's profile. When I checked a few minutes ago it was post No. 4 I think, which would've been quicker than re-reading half of this thread again to find the post. 

You mean, you read retiringtoosoon's comment that says zagfles's comment is on page 8? retiringtoosoon posted that comment after I had spent a while going through the thread and asked if there was quicker way. So unless retiringtoosoon had access to a time machine and went back in time and made that comment, it wouldn't have been useful to me (to reduce or prevent hunting around for zagfles's post earlier).

Just call me the Doctor 😜

RG2015

@AmityNeon, thank you for responding to my question.

However, it appears that my recollection of basic GCSE arithmetic and algebra differs from yours.

I much prefer to use Excel for simulating RS yield projections.

zagfles

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:

AmityNeon said:

zagfles said:
You seem to be saying people don't need teaching maths or be shown mathematical techniques because they should be able to work it all out themselves.

Really? Where did I say that?

"It's not a case of they 'should' be able to solve everyday maths problems with innate logic; they can do it. "

Can do it (not 'should'); the context being adults are already educated in basic arithmetic and algebra due to compulsory maths education.

So not "innate logic", but what you've been taught! You seem to agree with me now!

(PS my last final word on this issue otherwise we'll end up going round in circles and some people may find it booooring )

zagfles

RG2015 said:

@AmityNeon, thank you for responding to my question.

However, it appears that my recollection of basic GCSE arithmetic and algebra differs from yours.

I much prefer to use Excel for simulating RS yield projections.

Me too, using excel for stuff like this is far easier than doing algebra, and less prone to mistakes. It's easy to visualise interest being accrued/things happening at discrete intervals, and is exactly what excel is good at.

But for stuff like the "boring" BC balance transfer issue, you can't really use excel as you'd end up with a circular reference, so that's where algebra is useful. Also a lot simpler than the RS algebra above, even I got bored reading that and I find algebra interesting

RG2015

zagfles said:

RG2015 said:

@AmityNeon, thank you for responding to my question.

However, it appears that my recollection of basic GCSE arithmetic and algebra differs from yours.

I much prefer to use Excel for simulating RS yield projections.

Me too, using excel for stuff like this is far easier than doing algebra, and less prone to mistakes. It's easy to visualise interest being accrued/things happening at discrete intervals, and is exactly what excel is good at.

But for stuff like the "boring" BC balance transfer issue, you can't really use excel as you'd end up with a circular reference, so that's where algebra is useful. Also a lot simpler than the RS algebra above, even I got bored reading that and I find algebra interesting

What is BC balance transfer, and isn’t relatively easy to avoid/circumvent any circular references in Excel.