We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide

I'm the driver not the keeper, sent SAR stating this, who should I put as defendant on AoS ?

2»

Comments

  • And this is the "defence of CC 2" (the scratch-card fell off the dashboard) : 

    The facts as known to the Defendant: 

    2. It is admitted that on the material date the Defendant was the registered keeper (not the driver) of the vehicle in question, but liability is denied. 

    3.  It is denied that a parking charge was justified or is owed. It was clear from the photos taken by the Claimant that a valid Hillingdon Hospital staff car parking permit was displayed on the windscreen.

    4.  The driver was the Defendant's wife who worked at the Hospital, was authorised to park by her employer, and the parking rights were paid already. (not sure if I should mention the scratch-card fell off the dashboard?)

    5.  It is the Defendant's position that the first requirement of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 has not been met.  There has been no breach of a 'relevant contract' nor 'relevant obligation'.  The Defendant cannot,  therefore, be held liable as registered keeper under the statutory provisions in that Act and this generic bulk claim fails to get off the ground.

    ----- next paras were copied from para 5 onward from @johny86 

    6. The Particulars of Claim ('POC') appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action”. 

    7. The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case is being pursued. 

    8. The POC are entirely inadequate, in that they fail to particularise the contractual term(s) relied upon; (b) the specifics of any alleged breach of contract; and (c) how the purported and unspecified 'damages' arose and the breakdown of the exaggerated quantum. 

    ....................

  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 4 June 2023 at 9:33AM
    For the second (later PCN), you need to add the following paragraph:
    The Claimant has issued a further claim, claim number xxxxxxx, against the Defendant, and with substantially identical particulars, for the same cause of action. The issuing of two separate claims, by the same Claimant and for essentially the same cause of action, is an abuse of the civil litigation process. The long-established case law in Henderson v Henderson [1843] 67 ER 313 , establishes the principle that when a matter becomes the subject of litigation, the parties are required to advance their whole case. In Arnold v National Westminster Bank plc [1991] 3 All ER 41 the court noted that cause of action estoppel “…applies where a cause of action in a second action is identical to a cause of action in the first, the latter having been between the same parties or their privies and having involved the same subject matter.” The Court is invited to strike out the second claim due to cause of action estoppel - or in the alternative, consolidate the two claims to be determined together at one hearing - and to apply appropriate sanctions against the Claimants for filing two abusive and exaggerated claims.

    Make it para #6 and then renumber all subsequent paras.

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 162,239 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    For BOTH defences.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • B789 said:
    For the second (later PCN), you need to add the following paragraph:
    The Claimant has issued a further claim, claim number xxxxxxx, against the Defendant, and with substantially identical particulars, for the same cause of action. The issuing of two separate claims, by the same Claimant and for essentially the same cause of action, is an abuse of the civil litigation process. The long-established case law in Henderson v Henderson [1843] 67 ER 313 , establishes the principle that when a matter becomes the subject of litigation, the parties are required to advance their whole case. In Arnold v National Westminster Bank plc [1991] 3 All ER 41 the court noted that cause of action estoppel “…applies where a cause of action in a second action is identical to a cause of action in the first, the latter having been between the same parties or their privies and having involved the same subject matter.” The Court is invited to strike out the second claim due to cause of action estoppel - or in the alternative, consolidate the two claims to be determined together at one hearing - and to apply appropriate sanctions against the Claimants for filing two abusive and exaggerated claims.

    Make it para #6 and then renumber all subsequent paras.

    Can I still put it even it was for two different cars?


  • For BOTH defences.
    Even for two different cars?

    And do I need to say that my scratch-card fell off the dashboard?
    Or just state that I have displayed my parking permit?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 44,459 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 5 June 2023 at 10:15AM
    For BOTH defences.
    1. Even for two different cars?

    2. And do I need to say that my scratch-card fell off the dashboard?
    Or just state that I have displayed my parking permit?
    1. You are the defendant, not your cars. So yes.

    2. Don't do the C's job for them, of course you displayed your permit, let them prove otherwise. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    #Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 5 June 2023 at 9:15AM
    For BOTH defences.
    Even for two different cars?

    And do I need to say that my scratch-card fell off the dashboard?
    Or just state that I have displayed my parking permit?
    Put the extra paragraph in both Defences as advised by @Coupon-mad. It doesn't matter that it was for two different cars. The claim is against you, not the different cars, for the same alleged breach of contract and they are not allowed to do that, hence the cause of action estoppel.

    Do the PoC mention anything about scratch cards or displaying permits? No, they don't so why mention them in your Defence, thus doing the job on behalf of the scammers that are trying to rip you off? You are defending against the woefully inadequate PoC. KISS applies.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 354.6K Banking & Borrowing
  • 254.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 455.5K Spending & Discounts
  • 247.5K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 604.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 178.6K Life & Family
  • 261.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.