Best way to invest £200,000.

El_Torro

Louie_lizzard said:

Ok, so much has happened in the financial world since my last question. 
So, i have decided to put £85k (x2) into a 1 year ns&i fixed income bond @ 6.20%. 
My question is, how safe is it depositing that sum of money online, or, can i pay in a cheque at a post office, which is preferable.

I don't see a big issue with doing this online, as long as you input the right details. I don't see a cheque at the post office being safer. 

It's worth noting as well that you don't need to limit yourself to £85k when depositing in NS&I. NS&I is backed by the Treasury so it's safer than private banks. All your money is guaranteed at NS&I. 

gascar

I also have that sort of amount "doing nothing". We've used an IFA twice, and got advice you could sum up in a paragraph about risk exposure. We haven't beaten the FTSE by much. Whatever we do with it, it's going backwards relative to inflation.

On the other hand, I just started "Day Trading" on the stock market. There's "swing trading" too, which is a slower way of doing things. It makes building societies returns look a bit silly. Is it Risky? Yes you might lose about 0.5% before your "trailing stop-loss" comes in. If you feed in slowly to an uptrending stock, you risk less than that. You stop-loss tracks up, say 0.5% below the current value.

I could stick up a chart which shows some stocks (MELI and AF) which have, in the last week, grown by about 3% every day. (About 18% altogether). Day after day, evenly. So every morning I checked that the trend was continuing and let it carry on. (I missed the first half day or so).

Actually it's leveraged, which is the  way people do it now, so my fairly small investment (50k) became 250k while it was active. It grew near 20% so it's now 300k. The difference is my profit = 50k. So 50k has doubled in a week (and a bit). When considering what to do with money in those ISAs, it doesn't make much difference, they'd only grow by a few percent in a year (now) whatever I do.  

There's nothing clever or unusual about Meli or FA, there are always stocks doing that sort of thing, though usually more choppy.

I'm not great at day trading, so I only do simple stuff. You only have to be moderately suited - school maths ish, say.

[Someone may rightly say there's a small risk that the market can "gap" below your stop-loss.. You can insure against that, I didn't bother.]

I suppose I either start trading with those other savings, or I pick funds they ( isas about 300k) can use and keep changing them. What else? Corporate bonds?

I'm disabled and retired, I don't need much money, I can barely leave the house. I'm only 'trading' for amusement.

Wife lives frugally. She says she doesn't want any more handbags, she has one already.

dunstonh

On the other hand, I just started "Day Trading" on the stock market. There's "swing trading" too, which is a slower way of doing things. It makes building societies returns look a bit silly. Is it Risky? Yes you might lose about 0.5% before your "trailing stop-loss" comes in. If you feed in slowly to an uptrending stock, you risk less than that. You stop-loss tracks up, say 0.5% below the current value.

Over 80% of people doing day trading lose money.    

 I'm only 'trading' for amusement.

Good.   That is what it should be.

gascar

dunstonh said:

On the other hand, I just started "Day Trading" on the stock market. There's "swing trading" too, which is a slower way of doing things. It makes building societies returns look a bit silly. Is it Risky? Yes you might lose about 0.5% before your "trailing stop-loss" comes in. If you feed in slowly to an uptrending stock, you risk less than that. You stop-loss tracks up, say 0.5% below the current value.

Over 80% of people doing day trading lose money.    

 I'm only 'trading' for amusement.

Good.   That is what it should be.

I hoped for a more intelligent reply.  It's easy to sneer from a position of not knowing, not understanding, or  having a preconceived idea you won't challenge, or making a living out of being lazy.

You do know some make a living out of it?

Maybe the 80% aren't able to be unemotional or something, or can't do basic maths, I don't know. I got a trading account to buy shares for investments free, not intending to do buy/sell frequently. But the penny dropped.

 Apple went up a few percent over a short period, then there was a flat day, then it fell for a while so I sold. I bought again when it started upwards again a week later. (The buy/sell "spread" is minuscule, and you don't have to pay fees at all) . Usually it trends up or down for a decent period - many days or weeks usually. That way I own  most of the rises, and miss most of the falls.

There's more to refine it, I learned as I went, but that'll do.

Checking once a day is fine, I suppose most people can't be bothered.

The 80% mostly try to predict what'll happen.  Madness? OK if you're clever enough maybe, but it's easier to use what IS happening. You switch to the fastest horse.

"Investors" just leave the money and accept the slides, or stick to something growing almost imperceptibly through some idea of loyalty or reverence for the guy they paid a ton of money who said it was good. Also madness.

Here's Apple for a year to date, each candle one week wide. Buy when it goes  properly blue and sell for red. It's trending up overall which helps, but you'd still win if it were trending down (more reds than blues) but you don't own the reds so ignore them. (I'm leaving out that I "go short" and gain then, too). You still win on the blues.

As you can count, you'd be buying or selling about 16 times in the year.

Day traders do it more often, the above is usually called swing trading. In both cases you jump from stock to stock, or have several at once.

I'm a retired ol bloke but I could write a program to do that in several minutes..

--

Ok, having got that out of the way, is there an "instrument" that does that for me? All that I can find,  buy stocks and hope for the best, or buy dividend stocks which promise a percentage - as long as the base price doesn't fall. ([Ahem eg Rio Tinto, down 18% in 6 months when many were doing rather well.])

There should be, if I as an ol bloke can beat the building societies in one week and inflation in two, with ease. (See previous post)

We are in the world run by  AI, not old men in pin striped suits who like to sneer and tell you you don't understand.

booneruk

gascar said:

dunstonh said:

On the other hand, I just started "Day Trading" on the stock market. There's "swing trading" too, which is a slower way of doing things. It makes building societies returns look a bit silly. Is it Risky? Yes you might lose about 0.5% before your "trailing stop-loss" comes in. If you feed in slowly to an uptrending stock, you risk less than that. You stop-loss tracks up, say 0.5% below the current value.

Over 80% of people doing day trading lose money.    

 I'm only 'trading' for amusement.

Good.   That is what it should be.

I hoped for a more intelligent reply.  

It might be a touch blunt, but it's certainly an intelligent reply, as well as succinct! Do report back with a selfie from your yacht once you've hit that multimillionaire level.

dunstonh

You do know some make a living out of it?

The typical range of loss makers is 70%-90% across the trading platforms.   So, that clearly indicates that a tiny minority make money out of it.

I hoped for a more intelligent reply.  It's easy to sneer from a position of not knowing, not understanding, or  having a preconceived idea you won't challenge, or making a living out of being lazy.

What you consider sneering, I consider a sensible warning to the OP.   People that know what they are doing understand the risks.  They can then make risk assessments and decide whether it is for them or not.    The OP is potentially vulnerable and looking for  "safest place to put my cash?".   So, warning about an area where circa 80% lose money is sensible.  Your downplaying of the risks suggests it is you that lacks understanding. 

london21

Louie_lizzard said:

I have sold my house, paid off my mortgage and debts and am about to rent a property until my inheritance comes through. My wife is 52, working, i am 61, not working due to cancer. I will hopefully return to the workplace in 2024 all being well.
Whats the best yield yet safest place to put my cash? I will re enter the property market once my inheritance is paid out, but want to know how to grow the £200,000, probably for my children. I know nothing of trading in cryptocurrency, but have been told this is a fast way to grow cash. But how risky is that investment.

Not an investment. It's like a gamble fast way to grow cash and lose it all.

Put in instant access account or fixed depending on risk tolerance or lower cost funds. 

Spread the amounts if leaving in savings account to £85k each so money is protected.

"The FSCS protects 100% of the first £85,000 you have saved, per UK-regulated financial institution (not per account). So in simple terms, if your bank were to fail, the FSCS aims to get any savings up to this amount back to you within seven working days."

gascar

dunstonh said:

What you consider sneering, I consider a sensible warning to the OP.   People that know what they are doing understand the risks.  They can then make risk assessments and decide whether it is for them or not.    The OP is potentially vulnerable and looking for  "safest place to put my cash?".   So, warning about an area where circa 80% lose money is sensible.  Your downplaying of the risks suggests it is you that lacks understanding. 

Well apart from being out of touch, you misread. I didn't advise him to go trading the stock market.

I assume your mistake was driven by emotion. 

You would therefore be a hopeless stockmarket trader.

Traders have to be emotionless.

Stay away, you don't know what you're talking about, so, as you haven'y learned or tried it, stay quiet.

People who do it for a living, don't "lose all their money" because they don't treat it as something  where you put your money and hope for the best, ans imilar wrong things.

The numbers  quoted, don't apply to people doing it for a living, those who watch and manage the risk, all the time.  I'm looking for a product where that is done for me, for a commission. 

Trading rooms in banks make a profit, do they not. 

The people and systems they use are competent.

Those who say they will lose,  are not  competent.

Most people simply haven't a clue, so they buy something then hope for the best, and sell as soon as they get worried. That will fail. I showed you  a selected stock gaining 3% a day. It carried on, by the way. 6 days so far I think. . Maybe you think that means leave it there forever - nope. I don't leave many positions open overnight.

I've explained something of the mechanisms available, which perhaps most people are clueless about. 

Stone age man wouldn't be safe in a car. Not able to use steering or brakes he'd  surely crash into things all the time. Yes that would likely happen to 70% plus of people who don't know how to drive.

The inabilty to read a post on a forum, indicates someone who would do what they  thought would be right, without finding out what they were doing/writing about. Confirmation  bias when you !!!!!! it up. "Not MY fault, IT was no good".

There are good and bad youtube videos. Look for ones watching pro daytraders. (DTTW is one) They aren't terribly good teachers, but over a period it's clear what they're doing. It's the same things that anyone with experience says. They gain a lot of money. Of the order of a few percent per day.  Multiply by the investment. You can use leveraging (I do) to multiply gains and losses. You  just don't lose much at all if it goes wrong because what's available. They (the companies doing it are called "Prop Shops") risk a lot because the gains are evened out over a period, and they worked out the optimal risk. Individuals work on a lower level.

I've done well, but it's pretty boring. I'm sure others could do better, I'd rather pay them to do it.

The difference beween someone who has an idea but knows his limitations and one who isn't so limited, is shown here. The pro gains tenfold in a week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRYHXrdHibI

What happened after, is that the losing  guy went and got educated, now he's doing a lot better.

I'm disabled, I couldn't use a yacht.

Could I get one? Yes, already, but could I get another?

Well yesterday I put in an order for Halfords shares because their results were coming out today and they were expected to do well, good co fundamentals, etc.. I didn' pre-buy which I would claim if I were trying to sound smart, because I didn't trust the reports particularly.

So I used a stop-limit order which only buys if the price jumps, but limits the price it'll pay. Standard stuff. Bought at 190.7 ( 1 minute after it had already jumped) and another pre-placed order sold at 193.5. Only 1.5%, but that's 3 months' interest in a building soc, in a few minutes. ( 10k x 5(lev) x 1.5% = £750) Smarter guys would have got nearer 5% and used a lot more shares. You don't have to be an expert. I just want to employ someone better than me.

ColdIron

gascar said:

dunstonh said:

What you consider sneering, I consider a sensible warning to the OP.   People that know what they are doing understand the risks.  They can then make risk assessments and decide whether it is for them or not.    The OP is potentially vulnerable and looking for  "safest place to put my cash?".   So, warning about an area where circa 80% lose money is sensible.  Your downplaying of the risks suggests it is you that lacks understanding.

Stay away, you don't know what you're talking about, so, as you haven'y learned or tried it, stay quiet.

Bless    

booneruk

ColdIron said:

gascar said:

dunstonh said:

What you consider sneering, I consider a sensible warning to the OP.   People that know what they are doing understand the risks.  They can then make risk assessments and decide whether it is for them or not.    The OP is potentially vulnerable and looking for  "safest place to put my cash?".   So, warning about an area where circa 80% lose money is sensible.  Your downplaying of the risks suggests it is you that lacks understanding.

Stay away, you don't know what you're talking about, so, as you haven'y learned or tried it, stay quiet.

Bless    

I don't know if there are multiple voices in one head going on here.