Getting married in an independent church

Wyndham

tightauldgit said:

Wyndham said:

tightauldgit said:

Wyndham said:

theoretica said:

HampshireH said:

The church would need to be a registered religious building for a religious ceremony to take place.

I had assumed the question about whether it would need to be a civil ceremony was posted perhaps because the church isn't registered.

OP can you clarify?

From what is said the minister isn't a registered person and the OP would require a registrar. A registrar will charge a fee to attend the church to carry out the ceremony. 

I'm probably way off but if it's the normal registrar for a civil ceremony then when we had ours it was made very clear they wouldn't incorporate any religious elements.

If a registrar is needed for a religious ceremony (It used to be CofE, Jewish and Quaker which did not need a separate registrar, but think more can now have their own) they do NOT carry out most of the ceremony - they just handle signing the register.

Your list is way too short. Many churches, not just CofE are able to carry out the ceremony without a separate registrar - instead the clergy is the registrar.

My own background is Methodist, and the minister married me (or rather married me to my husband!!) Other examples include URC, Baptist, and, of course, Catholic. All of these marry many people, in valid wedding ceremonies.

OP - so long as the minister is licensed, it will be a valid ceremony. You will sign the register as part of the service, and he/she will also sign it as the official registrar. And, as it's in a church, you can have hymns, bible reading or other religious things.

One other point I would raise, is in how they describe themselves: "an independent bible believing church" says to me that they are very evangelical and conservative. So, if, for example, you have been living together for a bit, they may not like that. However, you can only find that out by having more conversations with the minister. He/she may want to do some sort of 'marriage preparation' with you, which will ask these questions.

I think there are 3 different levels from what I've read -

1. CofE wedding - it's a legal wedding and a different process which doesn't involve the registrar in the same way
2. Religious wedding presided by a minister who can also act as registrar - I think this is most other 'major' church weddings
3. Religious wedding where the minister can't act as registrar and you need to get the registrar to attend. 

Seems the OP is talking about Option 3 here

My argument is that your (1) and (2) are actually the same. The CofE clergy are also licensed to act as a registrar, just like a minister from one of the other denominations. The CofE are not special in that way - despite the fact that they might like to think they are.

Definitely not 'the same' but probably fairly similar in terms of the ceremony itself. One clear difference is that you have to give notice to the registrar of a wedding in a non Anglican church but generally not in an Anglican one. 

Is that why Anglicans have banns read out? I don't think anyone else does this?

Spendless

Wyndham said:

tightauldgit said:

Wyndham said:

tightauldgit said:

Wyndham said:

theoretica said:

HampshireH said:

The church would need to be a registered religious building for a religious ceremony to take place.

I had assumed the question about whether it would need to be a civil ceremony was posted perhaps because the church isn't registered.

OP can you clarify?

From what is said the minister isn't a registered person and the OP would require a registrar. A registrar will charge a fee to attend the church to carry out the ceremony. 

I'm probably way off but if it's the normal registrar for a civil ceremony then when we had ours it was made very clear they wouldn't incorporate any religious elements.

If a registrar is needed for a religious ceremony (It used to be CofE, Jewish and Quaker which did not need a separate registrar, but think more can now have their own) they do NOT carry out most of the ceremony - they just handle signing the register.

Your list is way too short. Many churches, not just CofE are able to carry out the ceremony without a separate registrar - instead the clergy is the registrar.

My own background is Methodist, and the minister married me (or rather married me to my husband!!) Other examples include URC, Baptist, and, of course, Catholic. All of these marry many people, in valid wedding ceremonies.

OP - so long as the minister is licensed, it will be a valid ceremony. You will sign the register as part of the service, and he/she will also sign it as the official registrar. And, as it's in a church, you can have hymns, bible reading or other religious things.

One other point I would raise, is in how they describe themselves: "an independent bible believing church" says to me that they are very evangelical and conservative. So, if, for example, you have been living together for a bit, they may not like that. However, you can only find that out by having more conversations with the minister. He/she may want to do some sort of 'marriage preparation' with you, which will ask these questions.

I think there are 3 different levels from what I've read -

1. CofE wedding - it's a legal wedding and a different process which doesn't involve the registrar in the same way
2. Religious wedding presided by a minister who can also act as registrar - I think this is most other 'major' church weddings
3. Religious wedding where the minister can't act as registrar and you need to get the registrar to attend. 

Seems the OP is talking about Option 3 here

My argument is that your (1) and (2) are actually the same. The CofE clergy are also licensed to act as a registrar, just like a minister from one of the other denominations. The CofE are not special in that way - despite the fact that they might like to think they are.

Definitely not 'the same' but probably fairly similar in terms of the ceremony itself. One clear difference is that you have to give notice to the registrar of a wedding in a non Anglican church but generally not in an Anglican one. 

Is that why Anglicans have banns read out? I don't think anyone else does this?

When I messaged our CofE Vicar about if any banns were needed due to my son marrying later this year in a methodist Church miles from where we live, the response I got was that as far as he was aware it was peculiar to the CofE faith and so son wouldn't need them.

tightauldgit

Wyndham said:

tightauldgit said:

Wyndham said:

tightauldgit said:

Wyndham said:

theoretica said:

HampshireH said:

The church would need to be a registered religious building for a religious ceremony to take place.

I had assumed the question about whether it would need to be a civil ceremony was posted perhaps because the church isn't registered.

OP can you clarify?

From what is said the minister isn't a registered person and the OP would require a registrar. A registrar will charge a fee to attend the church to carry out the ceremony. 

I'm probably way off but if it's the normal registrar for a civil ceremony then when we had ours it was made very clear they wouldn't incorporate any religious elements.

If a registrar is needed for a religious ceremony (It used to be CofE, Jewish and Quaker which did not need a separate registrar, but think more can now have their own) they do NOT carry out most of the ceremony - they just handle signing the register.

Your list is way too short. Many churches, not just CofE are able to carry out the ceremony without a separate registrar - instead the clergy is the registrar.

My own background is Methodist, and the minister married me (or rather married me to my husband!!) Other examples include URC, Baptist, and, of course, Catholic. All of these marry many people, in valid wedding ceremonies.

OP - so long as the minister is licensed, it will be a valid ceremony. You will sign the register as part of the service, and he/she will also sign it as the official registrar. And, as it's in a church, you can have hymns, bible reading or other religious things.

One other point I would raise, is in how they describe themselves: "an independent bible believing church" says to me that they are very evangelical and conservative. So, if, for example, you have been living together for a bit, they may not like that. However, you can only find that out by having more conversations with the minister. He/she may want to do some sort of 'marriage preparation' with you, which will ask these questions.

I think there are 3 different levels from what I've read -

1. CofE wedding - it's a legal wedding and a different process which doesn't involve the registrar in the same way
2. Religious wedding presided by a minister who can also act as registrar - I think this is most other 'major' church weddings
3. Religious wedding where the minister can't act as registrar and you need to get the registrar to attend. 

Seems the OP is talking about Option 3 here

My argument is that your (1) and (2) are actually the same. The CofE clergy are also licensed to act as a registrar, just like a minister from one of the other denominations. The CofE are not special in that way - despite the fact that they might like to think they are.

Definitely not 'the same' but probably fairly similar in terms of the ceremony itself. One clear difference is that you have to give notice to the registrar of a wedding in a non Anglican church but generally not in an Anglican one. 

Is that why Anglicans have banns read out? I don't think anyone else does this?

I believe so, yes.

Batman_100

TonyMMM said:

You will need to "give notice" at a registration office in the district in which you live- this applies to all marriages (except those in the CofE, where banns are read instead).

Does this need to be done in the district where we live and/or where the church is located? Just asking cus my address, my partners address and the church are in 3 different local government areas. 

Spendless

Batman_100 said:

TonyMMM said:

You will need to "give notice" at a registration office in the district in which you live- this applies to all marriages (except those in the CofE, where banns are read instead).

Does this need to be done in the district where we live and/or where the church is located? Just asking cus my address, my partners address and the church are in 3 different local government areas. 

My son has just done this. Him and fiancée are living in our city. They are marrying where she is from. They just attended for our city. DS had to take the day off work as appointments were only Mon-Fri and had to be made in advance no longer than x time ahead. I would check if you need to do this in the places that both you and your partner live. 

TonyMMM

Batman_100 said:

TonyMMM said:

You will need to "give notice" at a registration office in the district in which you live- this applies to all marriages (except those in the CofE, where banns are read instead).

Does this need to be done in the district where we live and/or where the church is located? Just asking cus my address, my partners address and the church are in 3 different local government areas. 

Where you live....

tightauldgit

Batman_100 said:

TonyMMM said:

You will need to "give notice" at a registration office in the district in which you live- this applies to all marriages (except those in the CofE, where banns are read instead).

Does this need to be done in the district where we live and/or where the church is located? Just asking cus my address, my partners address and the church are in 3 different local government areas. 

Different councils seem to give different advice - I suspect it probably doesn't matter as long as it gets done but it seems to be the one local to the venue (i presume since the registrar has to attend the venue) that's most common. From memory registrar's offices aren't that hard to get hold of on the phone so probably check with them.

BungalowBel

Batman_100 said:

Hi, 

Me and my partner are in the very early stages of planning our wedding. 

We’ve decided to get married at my partners mums church. We don’t attend very often ourselves, but my partners mum goes to the Sunday service every week, it’s the church my partner was taken to as a child and the minister is a close family friend, so it just felt right for us to want to get married there. We went to the service last Sunday and after speaking to the minister he said he’d be happy for us to get married there. 

On its website, the church describes itself as ‘an independent bible believing church, not affiliated with any denomination’. They have a small, mainly elderly congregation and haven’t held a wedding in many years. But the minister reassured us the church is a licensed wedding venue and unlike in some other free churches, we won’t need to have a registry office ceremony beforehand and they’ll arrange the registrar for the service. 

This is something I don’t really know anything about as every wedding I’ve ever been to has been in either a registry office or a CofE church. I’ve done some research online and have some questions which I don’t know if anyone can help with. 

Firstly, in the eyes of the law, will this be classed as a ‘civil’ rather than a ‘religious/Christian’ wedding if it’s being presided over by a registrar rather than a minister of religion and is taking place outside the Church of England? 

Secondly, if this is the case, from what I’ve found online, the law doesn’t allow venues for civil weddings to have any religious content in marriage ceremonies. So in this case how are we supposed to do things you would normally expect at a Church wedding like bible readings, hymn singing etc…? 

Finally, an online search led me to a report from the law commission dated 2022 recommending major changes to the law on weddings. Does anyone know if this is likely to become law soon and if it will affect us in any way? 

We’re still in the very early planning stages and, like I said, it’s not something I know anything about so might feel a bit silly asking the minister these basic questions. Any answers or advice would be greatly appreciated. 

It will be classed as a church wedding.  It's just that in C of E (and I think RC), the vicar or whoever takes the service, can automatically act as registrar, in other churches they either have to get  a registrar in or have someone who is the designated 'authorised person' to act as registrar for that church only.

Secondly.....so as it is a church wedding you can have hymns, etc.

Don't know about the change of law.

(I was an 'authorised person' at an independent church for about five years and have acted in this capacity at about a dozen weddings).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/marriage-registration-guidance-for-authorised-persons/marriage-registration-guidance
ETA : Found this - hope it helps :  

Savvy_Sue

Thanks for that link. It explains why a short time after DS3 got married, a letter arrived for Mr and Mrs Our Surname, no initials. So we opened it, and there was a marriage certificate! He'd given our address when they registered.

Whereas DH and I walked away from our wedding with a certificate in our hands.

They were quite worried by its validity, because it was so plain and unadorned, typed and very boring.

theonlywayisup

Batman_100 said:

TonyMMM said:

You will need to "give notice" at a registration office in the district in which you live- this applies to all marriages (except those in the CofE, where banns are read instead).

Does this need to be done in the district where we live and/or where the church is located? Just asking cus my address, my partners address and the church are in 3 different local government areas. 

If you give Notice, it must be in the district that you live*.  This is irrespective of where you are to marry.   

You can give 'residency' which is a letter from (for example) an hotelier that shows you have lived in that district strictly for the last seven days and seven nights before giving Notice.  We have lots of people coming down to Cornwall who stay 9 days (which is what is required to prove residency) and then get married after the Schedule has been issued.