Communal heating is it a con?

Mstty

On paper it should always.worj.out cheaper as you don't have your own boiler so no initial cost/servicing/replacement.

But do the figures add up?

What are you being charged per kWh and standing charge and do you also.have to pay a maintenance charge for the communal heating for repairs etc.

I have a feeling the figures don't add up and it's a good idea in theory and ticks a lot of boxes but in theory is a much more expensive form of heating and hot water than it should have even been.

Nebulous2

Communist heating - I've heard it referred to, because of its prevalence in Soviet Russia. 

Its a bit like electric car charging. Government excitement, public grant funding, abuse of the facilities by the customers, things move on and it gets forgotten. Then you need to replace half a million pounds worth of heating plant, instead of £1500 for a new boiler, and the council or housing association or public heating trust is left holding the baby. 

I think it has its place, but making it work, and getting customers to appreciate it, instead of using as much heat as they can because it is there, is a challenge. 

moneysaver

Have a read at this https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/20076436.wyndford-community-protests-energy-price-increase-glasgow-power-plant/

The residents have been in dispute for years. Getting charged inflated prices for years, no price cap and locked into the supplier SSE.

Moneysaver

Nebulous2

moneysaver said:

Have a read at this https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/20076436.wyndford-community-protests-energy-price-increase-glasgow-power-plant/

The residents have been in dispute for years. Getting charged inflated prices for years, no price cap and locked into the supplier SSE.

Moneysaver

An article which seems very short on facts. What were they paying before, and what are they paying now? Is it metered, or is there a fixed cost? 

TheElectricCow

It’s a system that can work and I’m sure can be quite beneficial in certain situations, but I wouldn’t personally touch it with a barge pole if at all possible to avoid.

They often seem to be poorly managed/maintained, inflexible, and largely unregulated. 

I’m occasionally semi-involved in the billing side of communal heating in my work, and this year some of the cost increases I’ve seen on fixed price systems are astonishing (with no way for the individual users of the systems to cut down in any way, as the billing is simply split between all connected properties for the total use and reviewed yearly). 

In this type of system I’ve seen figures of over £180 per month, all year round, not too uncommon. Bare in mind this is for  relatively small 1-2 bed flats, often in social housing with vulnerable or elderly rental tenants where a bill like that along with their other service charges may come out higher than their actual rent.

‘Heat Meter’ systems are generally a bit better by billing on actual usage, but still don’t solve the issue of the users being stuck with one supplier and having no direct control over the maintenance or general operation/management of the system. 

Even then the unit rates can essentially be set at whatever the management company says they need to be and if there’s a problem those costs will likely end up being recharged to the tenants one way or another, either through inflated bills or a pre-arranged sinking fund.

moneysaver

Nebulous2 said:

moneysaver said:

Have a read at this https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/20076436.wyndford-community-protests-energy-price-increase-glasgow-power-plant/

The residents have been in dispute for years. Getting charged inflated prices for years, no price cap and locked into the supplier SSE.

Moneysaver

An article which seems very short on facts. What were they paying before, and what are they paying now? Is it metered, or is there a fixed cost? 

Plenty of information on the net regarding this dispute.

It is metered. My mother lived there until she passed away 3yrs ago. I don't know the prices now but I know she was paying a very high amount.

As a family up until we sold the house approx a year after she passed away we had to pay a standing charge of £80 a month with little or no energy used. This was before the energy crisis and no one living in the property.

Moneysaver

alanwsg

There's a scheme near me that is continually appearing in the local news.
The whole thing sounds like a nightmare...

https://insidecroydon.com/2020/06/23/sden-a-timeline-of-council-bungling-and-sky-high-fuel-prices/

MWT

Nebulous2 said:

Communist heating - I've heard it referred to, because of its prevalence in Soviet Russia.

Ironically also popular in the USA in housing co-ops, but the key difference is they do not usually outsource the ownership of the plant, so there is no profit motive just the benefits of shared ownership and collective bargaining for the energy supply contract. 

Scot_39

Nebulous2 said:

Communist heating - I've heard it referred to, because of its prevalence in Soviet Russia. 

Its a bit like electric car charging. Government excitement, public grant funding, abuse of the facilities by the customers, things move on and it gets forgotten. Then you need to replace half a million pounds worth of heating plant, instead of £1500 for a new boiler, and the council or housing association or public heating trust is left holding the baby. 

I think it has its place, but making it work, and getting customers to appreciate it, instead of using as much heat as they can because it is there, is a challenge. 

The problem is economy of scale only works up to a point.

There have been reported cases of villages in USSR that turned into ghost towns because the plant feeding the boiler shut down or the state wouldn't pay to replace pipes that had been fozen and cracked after a temporary aulty boiler system.

If you live near a heat intensive industry it could work.

But replacing 100 flats boilers with a few central one and the pump infrastructure and metering etc - far less clear.

Although many lha tower blocks do have communal heating - 2 near here went biomass boiler few years back - as cheaper than heat pump or gas - and a bigger SNP green funding - before biomass greenwashing exposed.

There are times and specific locations central heat could work very well - e.g. geothermal - from mine flood and pump systems in parts of uk - were there is essentially free heat to be harvested to balance out other costs.

Edit : There are also renewables equivalents to geothermal - like preheating sand filled silos as recent Scandinivian trials - or underground pools - but that like all renewables has a major handicap - the c7wks last year when renewables delivered sub 5% of rated capacity.

Edit 2 : data centres  there are cases of data centres being used on a small scale.  And its not just domestic heating,  shopping centres, pools etc e.g. one compact bank of servers now heats a public swimming pool etc.

BUFF

Mstty said:

On paper it should always.worj.out cheaper as you don't have your own boiler so no initial cost/servicing/replacement.

But do the figures add up?

What are you being charged per kWh and standing charge and do you also.have to pay a maintenance charge for the communal heating for repairs etc.

I have a feeling the figures don't add up and it's a good idea in theory and ticks a lot of boxes but in theory is a much more expensive form of heating and hot water than it should have even been.

the plant still has to be bought, installed & maintained.
& unfortunately afaik it is not included within the price cap/EPG so users are  far more at risk from volatile energy pricing.