Good (and short!) explanation of COPE

Almost-free

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Almost-free said:

I must be really thick because I can’t get my head around this at all. I’ve been in receipt of my NHS pension since July 2020. My state pension forecast states I will get the full amount of £203.85 a week  but my COPE estimate is £52 a week. I just assumed that when I get my SP they will take off £108 a month before it’s taxed. 

This thread however suggests that I will get the full £203.85 a week? ( obviously it will be taxed alongside my NHS pension).
Thanks for the help. 

No idea where you get the £108 from but if you have read your State Pension forecast correctly then yes you will receive £203.85/week State Pension from DWP.

No tax will be deducted from it but, if necessary, you will pay more tax on your NHS pension.

You may want to double check your State Pension forecast to make certain you have actually already accrued £203.85.  A surprising number of people see that headline figure and don't seem to bother reading the actual detail below.

No idea where you get the £108 from but if you have read your State Pension forecast correctly then yes you will receive £203.85/week State Pension from DWP.

No tax will be deducted from it but, if necessary, you will pay more tax on your NHS pension.

You may want to double check your State Pension forecast to make certain you have actually already accrued £203.85.  A surprising number of people see that headline figure and don't seem to bother reading the actual detail below.


That should have said £208- 4 times the weekly COPE amount of £52. Typing on my phone is not my friend!  
My statement says I have 47 yrs of full NI contributions with no gaps and 

£203.85 week is the most you can get

You cannot improve your forecast any more.

Marcon yes I read your post which is why I'm apologising. When I talked to the NHS pensions originally I had forgotten about my pension as id been off having cancer treatment and as I hadn't paid into my pension in almost 5 years I just thought it wouldn't be worth much. I was pleasantly surprised when I found I have a pretty decent pension. I remember posting here at the time about it.

When he was explaining how my pension was worked out I thought he said something like ' don't forget a couple of hundred of that is from your state pension'. I therefore assumed that when my state pension became payable ( 3 yrs from now) that it would be minus what I was already receiving in my NHS pension. 

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person confused about this, as annoying as it is for people like you that clearly understand this stuff. Thanks for your help 👍

GrubbyGirl_2

Almost-free said:

Marcon yes I read your post which is why I'm apologising. When I talked to the NHS pensions originally I had forgotten about my pension as id been off having cancer treatment and as I hadn't paid into my pension in almost 5 years I just thought it wouldn't be worth much. I was pleasantly surprised when I found I have a pretty decent pension. I remember posting here at the time about it.

When he was explaining how my pension was worked out I thought he said something like ' don't forget a couple of hundred of that is from your state pension'. I therefore assumed that when my state pension became payable ( 3 yrs from now) that it would be minus what I was already receiving in my NHS pension. 

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person confused about this, as annoying as it is for people like you that clearly understand this stuff. Thanks for your help 👍

To be honest you can't trust anything NHS Pensions tell you, they are absolutely useless, so much so I eventually complained to the pensions ombudsman because they had not given me any uplift for 2 years.  The ombudsman not only made them give me the uplift backdated they awarded me £3,000 compensation.  

Being contracted out just means you have paid less national insurance which also means you need to pay more years to get the same state pension as someone who wasn't contracted out.  Whilst there isn't a set amount of years you have to pay into the state pension as we are currently in a transition period, because I have worked for the NHS for the whole of my working life and paid into my NHS pension I actually need 49 years to get a full state pension whereas this that were not contracted out would need significantly less.

The good thing though is the fact that my COPE amount is £104.65 but I get much more NHS pension than that, but because I retired at 60 I'm going to be short on my state pension though I am buying the additional years.

tichtich

Hi. I came here with the same question as several other people. Thanks you to those who've answered it.

In my opinion a lot of confusion has been created by the badly worded statement, "This will not affect your State Pension forecast." It would have been much clearer to write: "This has already been taken into account in your State Pension forecast, and so nothing further will be deducted from the forecast amount."

Bod_1234

Can I join the list of people totally bemused by this COPE stuff.

Like most, all I can see is contradictory statements.     

I will get the maximum state pension (£203.xx), however one possible interpretation is that the government might be claiming back the COPE amount from my private pension?  If that's not the case, and they also aren't deducting £35 a week from my state pension either, why should I care about the £35 weekly COPE figure?

It seems I contracted out, had some money paid into a private pension, yet still get the maximum allowable state pension.  Isn't this a win?

HappyHarry

Bod_1234 said:

Can I join the list of people totally bemused by this COPE stuff.

Like most, all I can see is contradictory statements.     

I will get the maximum state pension (£203.xx), however one possible interpretation is that the government might be claiming back the COPE amount from my private pension?  If that's not the case, and they also aren't deducting £35 a week from my state pension either, why should I care about the £35 weekly COPE figure?

It seems I contracted out, had some money paid into a private pension, yet still get the maximum allowable state pension.  Isn't this a win?

From what you say you will get  the full state pension and a private pension. If you had not contracted out, you would have received a larger state pension and a smaller private pension.

Yes, if you contracted out you will almost definitely have won as the reduction in the state pension will be exceeded by increased value of your private pension.

Bod_1234

Thanks, what's not clear in all of this, is that those that didn't contract out are eligible for more.  I guess that's what the £35 a week is all about.  Had I not contracted out, i would have got £203.xx PLUS the £35).

If that's the case, why are they telling people about something that's not relevant, if this is nothing more than a "Here is what you could have had"?

Boris_Blank

@Bod_1234

That's incorrect, have a read of this very straight-forward real-life simple explanation.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-9176435/How-state-pension-affected-contracted-out.html

I had a COPE of £58pw, I didn't reach the State Pension maximum until I had 47 full qualifying years rather than the normal 35years.  Think of COPE as being a deduction of qualifying years rather than actual lost money, makes it easier although it can reduce your final State Pension amount if you are unable to add sufficient additional qualifying years after 2016.

The current SP maximum is £203.85 and that cannot be exceeded.

Hope that helps.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Boris_Blank said:

@Bod_1234

That's incorrect, have a read of this very straight-forward real-life simple explanation.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-9176435/How-state-pension-affected-contracted-out.html

I had a COPE of £58pw, I didn't reach the State Pension maximum until I had 47 full qualifying years rather than the normal 35years.  Think of COPE as being a deduction of qualifying years rather than actual lost money, makes it easier although it can reduce your final State Pension amount if you are unable to add sufficient additional qualifying years after 2016.

The current SP maximum is £203.85 and that cannot be exceeded.

Hope that helps.

That's not true though.  £203.85 is the standard amount and will be the maximum for those fully under the new rules but at the moment there are people who fall under transitional rules and have a protected element, above £203.85.

One of the safeguards with the new State Pension was that anyone who had accrued more than (the equivalent rate to) £203.85 at 05/04/2016 was entitled to keep what they had already earned.

Marcon

Boris_Blank said:

@Bod_1234


The current SP maximum is £203.85 and that cannot be exceeded.

It can and it is being exceeded. There's been a fair amount of media coverage lately about pensioners who have no income other than their state pension, but now have to start paying tax on it because it is greater than their personal allowance (personal allowances having been frozen for several years, whereas state pensions have increased). 

Useful article: https://www.litrg.org.uk/blog-post/tax-state-pensions-looking-back-and-ahead#:~:text=The%20new%20state%20pension%20is,the%202027%2F28%20tax%20year.

green.lander_2

Hello all, 

I still cannot get my head around this checking the government site it says 47 years of contributions and your COPE estimate is £73.58 a week. This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government with a estimate of £203

My old private pension company does know about COPE so how can i find out where this will come from.

Thanks