Do I have to appoint a trustee; and what are trustees allowed to do?

CharlieC2210

Savvy_Sue said:

There's a danger in will-writing that we try to dictate from beyond the grave.

Letting agents don't always pick up on dodgy tenants very fast, nor do they always deal well with the consequences. The legal responsibility rests with the landlord not the agent. There may be situations where you could do X at a cost of £X, or Y at a cost of £2X. If you do X, you'll need to do it again  in 2 years, but Y will last 5 years. Landlord's decision.

It might be a wonderful ongoing source of income for your DD (yes, Dear Daughter), but equally it could be a millstone round your DD's neck, and the trustees' necks until she's of age.

Plus, very basic questions:
* is it in an area with high rental demand from stable tenants (ie not just students)?
* is it a good house for the rental market, not too quirky or hard to maintain?
* if it's a family home, is it in the right catchment area for the sought after schools?

And so on.

Thanks again, Sue. You have all given me a lot to think about. Maybe I should leave it to my daughter's mum's discretion. Maybe state my wish in the will but leave it ultimately to her. Maybe suggest letting the property but adding that if it ever became a hassle she could sell it.

CharlieC2210

Malthusian said:

CharlieC2210 said:

Another question. Do you think it's wise to, if possible, have the 21 years of age stipulation? 

No, it's an example of the Politician's Syllogism. "I want to do something to stop my children squandering the inheritance at 18, this is something, therefore I shall do this." 
Anecdotally speaking, 21 was my age of peak irresponsibility. I'd been living on my own for three years and had the freedom and confidence to pick up bad habits without the maturity to think about the consequences. At 18 I would have done whatever my parents told me.

CharlieC2210 said:

And 18, or younger, seems to me to be young generally for someone to receive an inheritance. How common, or not, is this?

I agree it's young but I'm guessing it would also be pretty young for you to die. The default age to receive an inheritance is around your 50s to 60s. (On average people have children in their 30s and die in their 80s - but there are lots of outliers, especially when you are talking about not one but two statistical distributions.) But of course we still have to plan for it. 
It isn't that common; most 18-25 year old inheritances are likely to be of the "ten thousand quid from granny/grandpa" variety rather than an entire estate. (As well as money given in life and held in Junior ISAs / bare trusts / CTFs.) If those get squandered it's annoying but also provides useful information to the parents (and sometimes a valuable lesson).
If you went under the bus today, your daughter would be an outlier on multiple counts, as a) her parent has died young b) her other parent isn't between her and the inheritance c) she is an only child (not even stepbrothers / sisters / new partner to share with). But outliers happen a lot in a population of 70 million.
I echo the opinions above that trying to make her and her trustees keep your home (which she does not live in) after your death makes no sense whatsoever. If I was trustee of this Trust I would turn the Will upside down looking for a way to wriggle out of any such stipulation and sell it, in order to execute my statutory duty to invest her money in the way that a prudent businessperson would invest their own.

CharlieC2210 said:

Thanks again. Regards trustees having as much discretion as they're allowed in the Will; I hear you about careful drafting but who might the trustee be answerable to?

The courts.
(If you were appointing professional trustees there would be another answer: "the Solicitors Regulation Authority" and "their PI insurers", but that is very expensive and usually considered a last resort for those who don't have any amateur trustees they can trust.)
Is there anyone else apart from her mother you would consider appointing as a trustee; a family member or close friend, say? Appointing a second trustee doesn't mean you don't trust her mother, it means you are prudently planning for the possibility that something happens to her as well.
Having multiple trustees does make it more difficult and time-consuming to deal with the trust (i.e. getting agreement and signatures from everybody), especially if they are otherwise unrelated. Which would be yet another reason not to have its assets tied up in residential property, rather than a more "hands-off" diversified investment.

Thanks, Malthusian. Interesting points about age/s and irresponsibility/obedience to parents etc. More to think about. And the point about someone learning from blowing a small-ish inheritance/trust fund/whatever. 
As for another trustee? I wonder if that would be a kick in the teeth for her mum. Yes, it's not necessarily not trusting her mum, but if I imagine being in that position I don't see it as pleasant. Say I wanted to spend a few thousand on travel for my daughter only to have the other trustee/s object. Just the thought of them having power over you. I might look into the possibility of having a substitute trustee, one who could step in if anything happened to my daughter's mum as you alluded to. Lots to think about.

CharlieC2210

One other question. Does a beneficiary of a will have to be informed regardless of age? Would my daughter have to be told of her inheritance if I died before she was 18, even though she would have to wait, legally, until she's 18, to receive it? Would she have to be told what she was inheriting, not just that she's inheriting?

Savvy_Sue

CharlieC2210 said:

One other question. Does a beneficiary of a will have to be informed regardless of age? Would my daughter have to be told of her inheritance if I died before she was 18, even though she would have to wait, legally, until she's 18, to receive it? Would she have to be told what she was inheriting, not just that she's inheriting?

I'm not sure that she HAS to be informed, but a few thoughts: 

• your will, once it's gone to probate, will be available if your DD goes and looks for it online
• while it might not be her first question, it's likely to be A question at some point - did my dad leave a will, did he mention me in it? Is there any value in not being upfront in answering this question? 
• there are threads on here from people who have found out, years after the event, that they were left bequests in a will from someone who died long before they were an adult. And quite often, they have had great difficulty tracking down what happened to that bequest, because they've heard nothing. KNOWING what you've inherited at a young age has great value from that point of view. 

Sarahspangles

CharlieC2210 said:

One other question. Does a beneficiary of a will have to be informed regardless of age? Would my daughter have to be told of her inheritance if I died before she was 18, even though she would have to wait, legally, until she's 18, to receive it? Would she have to be told what she was inheriting, not just that she's inheriting?

Unless it’s changed since my two left school, young people complete their Uni and Student Loan Company application in Y13, the year they turn 18. Whether to go to Uni, and if so where and how it will be funded, are decisions on which inheritance has a bearing - not least because they have to put their own income down on the SLC application forms. 

CharlieC2210

Savvy_Sue said:

CharlieC2210 said:

One other question. Does a beneficiary of a will have to be informed regardless of age? Would my daughter have to be told of her inheritance if I died before she was 18, even though she would have to wait, legally, until she's 18, to receive it? Would she have to be told what she was inheriting, not just that she's inheriting?

I'm not sure that she HAS to be informed, but a few thoughts: 

• your will, once it's gone to probate, will be available if your DD goes and looks for it online
• while it might not be her first question, it's likely to be A question at some point - did my dad leave a will, did he mention me in it? Is there any value in not being upfront in answering this question? 
• there are threads on here from people who have found out, years after the event, that they were left bequests in a will from someone who died long before they were an adult. And quite often, they have had great difficulty tracking down what happened to that bequest, because they've heard nothing. KNOWING what you've inherited at a young age has great value from that point of view. 

Thanks, Sue. I didn't realise probate would be necessary. When my mum died, in Scotland (I'm in England) we had a copy of her will but the lawyer lost the actual will. My sister, the executor, said it had to go to probate because of this and would take ages. It took about a year. So I thought probate was an exceptional thing. I'm thinking my sister got it wrong and that it would have went to probate anyway.

I just read online that most wills go to probate. And, relevant to my situation, if the deceased was the sole owner of a property probate is required; and it takes about a year even if uncomplicated.

My plan was for my daughter's mum to tell our daughter a white lie, or two. Give her x amount now, and tell her she will get y amount when she is 21 but downplay that y amount so it wouldn't be a distraction in the meantime. I think we could still do that regardless of probate; I don't think our daughter would be suspicious and go looking for the will. She knows I'm not wealthy, and also believes I'm even less well off than I actually am.

I'm surprised wills become public documents after probate. Seems very strange to me. I could understand family members being allowed access but why are they accesible to everybody? I wonder how many people have a good nosey once a neighbour dies?

CharlieC2210

Sarahspangles said:

CharlieC2210 said:

One other question. Does a beneficiary of a will have to be informed regardless of age? Would my daughter have to be told of her inheritance if I died before she was 18, even though she would have to wait, legally, until she's 18, to receive it? Would she have to be told what she was inheriting, not just that she's inheriting?

Unless it’s changed since my two left school, young people complete their Uni and Student Loan Company application in Y13, the year they turn 18. Whether to go to Uni, and if so where and how it will be funded, are decisions on which inheritance has a bearing - not least because they have to put their own income down on the SLC application forms. 

Thanks, Sarah. My first Google result on this one said that only interest on money inherited is relevant here (?). Still, more to think about. If that's wrong, and any inherited money itself is relevant, it might be another reason to stipulate 21 years of age on the will (?).

Sarahspangles

CharlieC2210 said:

Sarahspangles said:

CharlieC2210 said:

One other question. Does a beneficiary of a will have to be informed regardless of age? Would my daughter have to be told of her inheritance if I died before she was 18, even though she would have to wait, legally, until she's 18, to receive it? Would she have to be told what she was inheriting, not just that she's inheriting?

Unless it’s changed since my two left school, young people complete their Uni and Student Loan Company application in Y13, the year they turn 18. Whether to go to Uni, and if so where and how it will be funded, are decisions on which inheritance has a bearing - not least because they have to put their own income down on the SLC application forms. 

Thanks, Sarah. My first Google result on this one said that only interest on money inherited is relevant here (?). Still, more to think about. If that's wrong, and any inherited money itself is relevant, it might be another reason to stipulate 21 years of age on the will (?).

Yes that’s right, it’s income from capital that counts but it does reduce what they can borrow as a student loan.

But in another scenario where capital/property would be taken into account I don’t think you can prevent an organisation treating it as hers as soon as she inherits it.

In the long run I think converting your estate into some cash and some investments is likely to give her more options than a rented-out house especially as I think she would lose her first time buyer status.

There was a student who posted here recently who’d been left a house and was trying to sort out probate and deal with Council Tax demands on top of exams. It certainly wasn’t helping him to have inherited right then.

Savvy_Sue

CharlieC2210 said:

I'm surprised wills become public documents after probate. Seems very strange to me. I could understand family members being allowed access but why are they accesible to everybody? I wonder how many people have a good nosey once a neighbour dies?

I suspect very few people will get round to having a good nosey after a neighbour dies, simply because of the time lag ... It only becomes publicly available once probate has been granted and that does take time, even if straightforward.

You do need to discuss with your solicitor your idea of a small immediate bequest, and the fudging of the main bequest. Needs to be carefully worded. 

CharlieC2210

Savvy_Sue said:

CharlieC2210 said:

I'm surprised wills become public documents after probate. Seems very strange to me. I could understand family members being allowed access but why are they accesible to everybody? I wonder how many people have a good nosey once a neighbour dies?

I suspect very few people will get round to having a good nosey after a neighbour dies, simply because of the time lag ... It only becomes publicly available once probate has been granted and that does take time, even if straightforward.

You do need to discuss with your solicitor your idea of a small immediate bequest, and the fudging of the main bequest. Needs to be carefully worded. 

Good point, and it doesn't look straightforward generally; I just tried to find my mum's Will online (I've already seen it; I was just trying to see how it worked) and my head was hurting after 5 minutes.

Regards the small immediate bequest; I wasn't planning on making that an official part of the Will; more a wish/instruction for my daughter's mum.