Car Insurance Cartel, or Rip Off Britain at its Best?

Thefotoman

I'm not only am I a 'member' of the Insitute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), I am a 'Fellow' of the Institiute. This means I take a driving test with a fully trained Police Driver every three years, the last one being in September 2022 – and at 76 years old, have passed every time.
The IAM's insurance brokers over the many years I have been a member, have always beaten any car insurance quote that I have obtained, except for this year.  I drive a so-called luxury car, a Lexus, and my insurance last year was £533. This year, the IAM's insurance brokers want £918!  That's near on £400 more. What is going on?
The normal course of action was to take the internet and sound out other insurance companies.  I was horrified to discover that many companies wanted over a £1,400.  I managed to find a department store, Marks and Spencer, who were the most competitive at some £750, nigh on a 50% increase.
I called them to try and negotiate; take it or leave it they said. So, I reluctantly went with it.  Then I discovered that I had entered a start date 24hrs ahead of the date it should have been.  "No problem," said the insurance guy, "I can change that."  Then came a moment of silence in which I knew something was not right. "Oh! I'm sorry, if you want your insurance to start on the day before your stated on-line, the cost will now be £1,100! 
I'm a street-wise guy and the word crooks comes to mind.  It does seem that UK Insurance companies are vigilantly flying the flag for Rip Off Britain!

prowla

Hmmm - whilst it is irksome, I think that a range of £750 to £1400 maybe doesn't suggest a cartel/price fixing.

It may be that many of the companies rely on the same underwriters and so they dictate the wiggle-room.

dunstonh

Another Monday, another fake rip off thread...

I drive a so-called luxury car, a Lexus, and my insurance last year was £533. This year, the IAM's insurance brokers want £918!  That's near on £400 more. What is going on?

Car insurance has gone up, the reasons for most of it are obvious to most people if they follow the news. (in case you haven't been following the news, inflation has been high and particularly so with parts, labour, second hand car values and a shortage of hire cars for insurance work.    Some car brands are worse than others for parts supply.

If your brokers were changing insurers most or every year, then you were likely getting early year discounting in your pricing.  That is now banned.   So, you are getting the price without discount now.

You have also passed through the 75 age threshold.

I'm a street-wise guy and the word crooks comes to mind.  It does seem that UK Insurance companies are vigilantly flying the flag for Rip Off Britain!

Nothing you have said indicates any rip off.  And clearly it isn't a cartel as your pricing range would not occur if it was.

MikeJXE

Thefotoman said:

I'm not only am I a 'member' of the Insitute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), I am a 'Fellow' of the Institiute. This means I take a driving test with a fully trained Police Driver every three years, the last one being in September 2022 – and at 76 years old, have passed every time.
The IAM's insurance brokers over the many years I have been a member, have always beaten any car insurance quote that I have obtained, except for this year.  I drive a so-called luxury car, a Lexus, and my insurance last year was £533. This year, the IAM's insurance brokers want £918!  That's near on £400 more. What is going on?
The normal course of action was to take the internet and sound out other insurance companies.  I was horrified to discover that many companies wanted over a £1,400.  I managed to find a department store, Marks and Spencer, who were the most competitive at some £750, nigh on a 50% increase.
I called them to try and negotiate; take it or leave it they said. So, I reluctantly went with it.  Then I discovered that I had entered a start date 24hrs ahead of the date it should have been.  "No problem," said the insurance guy, "I can change that."  Then came a moment of silence in which I knew something was not right. "Oh! I'm sorry, if you want your insurance to start on the day before your stated on-line, the cost will now be £1,100! 
I'm a street-wise guy and the word crooks comes to mind.  It does seem that UK Insurance companies are vigilantly flying the flag for Rip Off Britain!

I share your pain

I drive Jaguar and last year my fully comp was about £560 this year it's £830, no points no claims NCD over 20 years 

Tried eveywhere else and  it over a £1000 

You will probably get the same answers as myself and have to accept 

It's the age stupid 

MalMonroe

MikeJXE said:

Thefotoman said:

I'm not only am I a 'member' of the Insitute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), I am a 'Fellow' of the Institiute. This means I take a driving test with a fully trained Police Driver every three years, the last one being in September 2022 – and at 76 years old, have passed every time.
The IAM's insurance brokers over the many years I have been a member, have always beaten any car insurance quote that I have obtained, except for this year.  I drive a so-called luxury car, a Lexus, and my insurance last year was £533. This year, the IAM's insurance brokers want £918!  That's near on £400 more. What is going on?
The normal course of action was to take the internet and sound out other insurance companies.  I was horrified to discover that many companies wanted over a £1,400.  I managed to find a department store, Marks and Spencer, who were the most competitive at some £750, nigh on a 50% increase.
I called them to try and negotiate; take it or leave it they said. So, I reluctantly went with it.  Then I discovered that I had entered a start date 24hrs ahead of the date it should have been.  "No problem," said the insurance guy, "I can change that."  Then came a moment of silence in which I knew something was not right. "Oh! I'm sorry, if you want your insurance to start on the day before your stated on-line, the cost will now be £1,100! 
I'm a street-wise guy and the word crooks comes to mind.  It does seem that UK Insurance companies are vigilantly flying the flag for Rip Off Britain!

I share your pain

I drive Jaguar and last year my fully comp was about £560 this year it's £830, no points no claims NCD over 20 years 

Tried everywhere else and it's over a £1000 

You will probably get the same answers as myself and have to accept 

It's the age stupid 

Eeeek! Your last sentence cut me to the quick. I'm 73 and guess I will be looking at that kind of increase in motor insurance when I get to 75. We can't even cry 'discrimination!' either because the recently qualified and under 25 years old motorists have to pay extortionate prices, too. 

I avoid motorways as much as possible now because what with them being 'smart' (even though the govt has now decided they're not so smart after all) and everything, there are still so many unexpected incidents happening. (Why yes, I have been watching some (too many) of the many traffic cop shows on TV). 

I'm a woman with a Toyota so not really a 'luxury' car - and there's no concession for gender or that'd be discriminatory too - but I think I'd better start saving even more per month than I'm saving now to account for my motoring costs. Help!! I'd be lost without my own transport as I live in an area with one bus per hour, if we're lucky. 

Sorry, that was just a whine, really but the age group most likely to have an accident on our roads today is the 17-25 year old one*. Not those of us in the sensible septuagenarian plus group. *That is, according to those traffic cop shows that I appear to be addicted to now. . . 

Smithcom

Thefotoman said:

I'm not only am I a 'member' of the Insitute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), I am a 'Fellow' of the Institiute. This means I take a driving test with a fully trained Police Driver every three years, the last one being in September 2022 – and at 76 years old, have passed every time.
The IAM's insurance brokers over the many years I have been a member, have always beaten any car insurance quote that I have obtained, except for this year.  I drive a so-called luxury car, a Lexus, and my insurance last year was £533. This year, the IAM's insurance brokers want £918!  That's near on £400 more. What is going on?
The normal course of action was to take the internet and sound out other insurance companies.  I was horrified to discover that many companies wanted over a £1,400.  I managed to find a department store, Marks and Spencer, who were the most competitive at some £750, nigh on a 50% increase.
I called them to try and negotiate; take it or leave it they said. So, I reluctantly went with it.  Then I discovered that I had entered a start date 24hrs ahead of the date it should have been.  "No problem," said the insurance guy, "I can change that."  Then came a moment of silence in which I knew something was not right. "Oh! I'm sorry, if you want your insurance to start on the day before your stated on-line, the cost will now be £1,100! 
I'm a street-wise guy and the word crooks comes to mind.  It does seem that UK Insurance companies are vigilantly flying the flag for Rip Off Britain!

If you believe that dishonesty or criminal activity (including competition fixing) is involved, please call the police, if you have not already done so.

However, it does seem absurd that the premium jumps £350 for altering the inception date by a day.   If I were in your shoes, I would try and speak with a manager.   I have dealt with M&S for some relatives' insurances, and they come across as being fairly sensible people.  Whether they can solve your problem, I could not say, but definitely worth a try.

The trouble is these days, mainly with online quotations systems, is that the premiums are very much 'gamed' to any number of defining features, whether it's a non-fault accident 4 1/2 years ago, or the inception date changing by a day.   It doesn't feel right, and to that extend I agree with you.

Why has your premium jumped from 2022.   It could be that you are now over 75.   I suspect that a lot of it is to do with your skilled negotiations in prior years, which largely will no longer work because of the insurer's obligations under the new regulations re fair pricing to existing clients.   I'm sure that it must give you a nice warm feeling to know that it's all very fair and even!!

I don't think that your experience is a good advertisement for the insurance sector.   We could have a very decent debate on computer-generated-pricing v individually underwritten risks, but that would be pretty boring I suspect.  However, I do feel that the insurer's balance re pricing is not correct/fair, even if they can tick the FCA's 'Fair Pricing' box.

I hope that you get it sorted.   Good luck

SC

molerat

Just received my renewal and it is up 52% on last year.

DullGreyGuy

MalMonroe said:

MikeJXE said:

Thefotoman said:

I'm not only am I a 'member' of the Insitute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), I am a 'Fellow' of the Institiute. This means I take a driving test with a fully trained Police Driver every three years, the last one being in September 2022 – and at 76 years old, have passed every time.
The IAM's insurance brokers over the many years I have been a member, have always beaten any car insurance quote that I have obtained, except for this year.  I drive a so-called luxury car, a Lexus, and my insurance last year was £533. This year, the IAM's insurance brokers want £918!  That's near on £400 more. What is going on?
The normal course of action was to take the internet and sound out other insurance companies.  I was horrified to discover that many companies wanted over a £1,400.  I managed to find a department store, Marks and Spencer, who were the most competitive at some £750, nigh on a 50% increase.
I called them to try and negotiate; take it or leave it they said. So, I reluctantly went with it.  Then I discovered that I had entered a start date 24hrs ahead of the date it should have been.  "No problem," said the insurance guy, "I can change that."  Then came a moment of silence in which I knew something was not right. "Oh! I'm sorry, if you want your insurance to start on the day before your stated on-line, the cost will now be £1,100! 
I'm a street-wise guy and the word crooks comes to mind.  It does seem that UK Insurance companies are vigilantly flying the flag for Rip Off Britain!

I share your pain

I drive Jaguar and last year my fully comp was about £560 this year it's £830, no points no claims NCD over 20 years 

Tried everywhere else and it's over a £1000 

You will probably get the same answers as myself and have to accept 

It's the age stupid 

Eeeek! Your last sentence cut me to the quick. I'm 73 and guess I will be looking at that kind of increase in motor insurance when I get to 75. We can't even cry 'discrimination!' either because the recently qualified and under 25 years old motorists have to pay extortionate prices, too. 

I avoid motorways as much as possible now because what with them being 'smart' (even though the govt has now decided they're not so smart after all) and everything, there are still so many unexpected incidents happening. (Why yes, I have been watching some (too many) of the many traffic cop shows on TV). 

I'm a woman with a Toyota so not really a 'luxury' car - and there's no concession for gender or that'd be discriminatory too - but I think I'd better start saving even more per month than I'm saving now to account for my motoring costs. Help!! I'd be lost without my own transport as I live in an area with one bus per hour, if we're lucky. 

Sorry, that was just a whine, really but the age group most likely to have an accident on our roads today is the 17-25 year old one*. Not those of us in the sensible septuagenarian plus group. *That is, according to those traffic cop shows that I appear to be addicted to now. . . 

Discrimination and differentiation are two separate things, insurers can vary price on age because its backed up my data that shows a correlation between age and claims exposure (frequency x severity). Insurers used to be able to differentiate on sex too but EU legislation explicitly banned insurance pricing based on sex whether it was provable or not.

Younger driver, certainly the 19-25 category, dont have more accidents but the ones they have tend to be much more serious and so high value claims. Octogenarians dont tend to turn their car over with 6 teenagers crammed in the back however they tend to have many more low value claims. 

Given I mainly dealt with Fast Track claims the only 10 car accident I ever dealt with was a 85 year old chap who got confused between the brake and the accelerator in the carpark. Which was bad enough until I thought his name looked familiar and realised he had a claim 2 months ago where he'd done the same but only damaged 6 cars in that one (his daughter said they were taking his keys away from him after the second). 

dunstonh

Sorry, that was just a whine, really but the age group most likely to have an accident on our roads today is the 17-25 year old one*. Not those of us in the sensible septuagenarian plus group. *That is, according to those traffic cop shows that I appear to be addicted to now. . . 

The ABI data is more reliable as it uses real claims data.  The cost to insurers jumps in the age 76-80 band.  


2021:

MikeJXE

dunstonh said:

Sorry, that was just a whine, really but the age group most likely to have an accident on our roads today is the 17-25 year old one*. Not those of us in the sensible septuagenarian plus group. *That is, according to those traffic cop shows that I appear to be addicted to now. . . 

The ABI data is more reliable as it uses real claims data.  The cost to insurers jumps in the age 76-80 band.  


2021:

So looking at the chart I'm going to have to suck it up for the next 7 years before my premiums come down. 

How does that work, is it because there are less drivers over 90 or do we become better drivers ? 

molerat

So looking at the chart I'm going to have to suck it up for the next 7 years before my premiums come down.

How are you seeing that ?  The red line is the premium which will continue to rise from now and forever.  When you get to 90 it is the cost of claims goes down.