KRCS damaged iPad when returned for warranty claim. Need advice

powerful_Rogue

tanzanyte said:

I insured it for the complete value but like theonlywayisup has said, I can't make a claim with RM given the retailer are saying it wasn't damaged in transit, and I don't have the outer box and the inner box has no damage.

If KRCS did take a photo upon arrival, given that there were a couple of days between it arriving and going to the service engineers, they surely aren't going to give me that. They already know I am disagreeing with them and they had the Apple report stating there was no damage and aren't willing to budge.
I take it I have no come back even with small claims? I'm prepared to pay court costs because this was damaged this after I sent it and I don't see how it can be anyone other than someone at the company. It's the principle of it now.
Would the Apple report not be enough to show, that on the balance of probability, it's unlikely to have been damaged by us? It hadn't received any damage for 18 months use and wasn't in a useable state between it being with the Apple engineers and being sent off.

Playing devils advocate, that's exactly the same position you are in, a few days passed between the Apple report and you sending.

Manxman_in_exile

tanzanyte said:

I take it I have no come back even with small claims? I'm prepared to pay court costs because this was damaged this after I sent it and I don't see how it can be anyone other than someone at the company. It's the principle of it now.
Would the Apple report not be enough to show, that on the balance of probability, it's unlikely to have been damaged by us? It hadn't received any damage for 18 months use and wasn't in a useable state between it being with the Apple engineers and being sent off.

It being "a question of principle" is often the worst reason for suing someone.

Having said that, I'm not sure you actually have anything to lose by trying to claim against KRCS if you are actually convinced that they must have caused the damage.

What value are we talking about?  Is it going to cost you £590 to fix damage you think they caused?

If you do decide to sue them it will be a "he said... she said" situation and will depend on what evidence you both put before the court and who a judge decides to believe.  (Assuming it gets to court)

Evidence for you might include the Apple report where they don't mention the damage; evidence for them might include some sort of record of them receiving the item damaged.  Of course you could have damaged the item after Apple inspected it and you might be lying; or KRCS might be lying about their evidence.

It all comes down to what evidence you have and who the judge thinks is most believable.

If you come across as an honest, compelling and credible witness when you say it was undamaged when you sent it off, the judge can agree with you - or not.  (Although my personal view is that unless a consumer comes across as obviously shifty and untrustworthy, a judge is likely to side with them anyway.  But that's just my personal view, not a legal rule)

born_again

tanzanyte said:

I packaged it in the original iPad box, inside a much larger laptop box with lots of formed packaging around the iPad box to keep it away from the sides. If there was no damage to either box I cannot see how the damage would have occurred in transit. 

What was the preformed packaging made of?

If it was dropped or squashed by another package, then it may not damage the outside, but solid packaging inside has to go somewhere & may have been enough to cause damage

SaverRate

why cant you do section 75 if your an additional cardholder? Cant you get the main cardholder to make the claim?

tanzanyte

Thanks Manxman_in_exile - that's exactly what I needed, a basic run down. If I hadn't noticed the black mark on the side I'd have second guessed myself, but there is no way that damage was there when I put it into the original iPad box. It lay flat in the box, something it didn't do when it arrived back. It was put back inside its Beetle case before I even left the Apple store. I am paranoid about most of my devices and always buy decent cases. This case covers the back and front of the iPad and has a rigid frame so I really cannot see how it could even bend in a case like that. I only took it out when I placed it in the box to return.

It's going to cost £590 for everything. They basically cannot fix the iPad port, or it's not cost effective so they take them back in recondition them and give you a reconditioned iPad as a replacement. The replacement iPad for the port should have been covered under the warranty and therefore fixed for free when I sent it off in the condition that I know I sent it. However because they say it had a bend and it counts as abuse and voids the warranty, I then have to pay the £590.
I only have the Apple report and a photo I took of the front of the iPad whilst there. KRCS have a picture with the service engineer showing the bend. There were 3 days between KRCS receiving the iPad and the engineers photo.
Can I put in a subject access request to see if KRCS have any other info on the iPad?
Also do I have a time limit to open a small claim for this? I am just trying to work out if there is anything else I can and should be doing to try and see if I can get to the bottom of this.

To answer your question Born_again - the preformed packaging was I think a slightly hard foam type material and some cardboard that sat to the sides of the larger cardboard box and slightly around the front/back of the iPad box. The bit where the screen would have been would actually have had a gap between the outer box and the iPad box. I'm hoping that makes sense.
It was basically a chromebook laptop box so I figured if a laptop could turn up in it without anything else around it then the iPad would be fine its box in the centre. The iPad box has no crease or marks to the centre of the box. I made sure it was well packaged as I didn't want any damage occurring in transit.

SaverRate - Apparently section 75 does not cover additional cardholders. I did make the claim in my husbands name but because my details are on the invoice it counts as being my purchase. I didn't know this. I had no idea I wasn't covered as a secondary cardholder, but I will not make this mistake again in future.
Basically a lot of rubbish lessons learnt on this.

Manxman_in_exile

SaverRate said:

why cant you do section 75 if your an additional cardholder? Cant you get the main cardholder to make the claim?

According to the MSE guide to s75 it seems that only a primary card holder can make a claim under s75, and they can only claim in respect of purchases by secondary card holders if the purchase benfits them in some way.  eg if the secondary card holder bought something as a gift for the primary card holder.

(See the link to "secondary card holders and gifts" in the list of things s75 does and does not cover - Section 75 refunds: credit card protection’ - MSE (moneysavingexpert.com) )

Manxman_in_exile

@tanzanyte -  if the alternative is writing off £590 then I don't see what you have to lose by at least sending them a "Letter Before Claim".  The cost of a stamp.

If you end up issuing a claim for £590 I think the fee would be £70, which if you won you would get back, if you lose you wouldn't.

If you lose I don't think that KRCS would be able to recover their costs in the small claims court, but I'm not sure of that - you'd have to check.

But there's certainly no guarantee you would win and - as I said before - suing on a point of principle is rarely if ever a good idea...

tanzanyte

Thank you for your advice. I will look into the letter before claim.

I think I'm going to try a Subject Access Request just to see if they have any other information they aren't giving me. It may be a way to get other photo's if they have them. Although it's still reliant on the other party sending everything and I know having done one with a school before, they can amazingly forget to send certain things through that paint them in a bad light.

With regards to S75 for additional cardholders. Does anyone know how you go about proving it was a gift?
The credit card have refused the claim stating the invoice was in my name. However, they haven't asked for info about whether it was a gift or for family use so I assumed that was the end of it. 

born_again

Manxman_in_exile said:

SaverRate said:

why cant you do section 75 if your an additional cardholder? Cant you get the main cardholder to make the claim?

According to the MSE guide to s75 it seems that only a primary card holder can make a claim under s75, and they can only claim in respect of purchases by secondary card holders if the purchase benfits them in some way.  eg if the secondary card holder bought something as a gift for the primary card holder.

(See the link to "secondary card holders and gifts" in the list of things s75 does and does not cover - Section 75 refunds: credit card protection’ - MSE (moneysavingexpert.com) )

Yep, main card holder needs to invoke the claim, but if talking to bank. \they can pass over to other party to explain issue.

Although some banks seems to argue that Additional Card Holder do not have S75 cover..

Proving it was a gift. Well it would need to be a purchase in your name to start with. 

TBH, I would have not even mentioned it was a family i-pad. As you & others use it. 

Only issue is back to the "inherently faulty" claim. You would need to get Apple (who won't) or a 3rd party to state that. Although the bigger issue now is that it has been damaged at some point.

tanzanyte

The S75 claim was invoked as the main cardholder. It wasn't mentioned who the iPad was purchased for and who uses it. I just wrote why we were making a claim under section 75. The bank have refused given the invoice was in my name and therefore as I am an additional cardholder I am not covered. Our cards have the same numbers so I can't see how they'd know which card it was purchased on. It's just down to the invoice and it being my contract with the retailer. That being the case is it possible to get them to relook into it and how do I do that?

Does anyone know if there are any high street places that will write a report with regard to proving an iPad inherent faulty?
Also if I were to put in for an inherently faulty claim am I still likely to come stuck with regard to the bend that is now in it? Obviously I can prove that the fault was there before the bend was, I just don't know if it's going to cause issues.