Beating them at their own game?

Jopkins

Hi,

I got a parking fine in a space where I had a permit to park there, it was displayed in the side window but in their photos they only took ones of the windscreen. Obviously I will not be paying, but I did submit an online appeal (rejected, of course) and I then emailed them with some further evidence, just so I could possibly avoid months of pointless letters for something I won't pay.

Anyway, after submitting clear evidence that I had a permit, they still wanted me to pay, so I included this with my final email:

This notice is hereby given that [my name], having presented clear evidence of no breach of contract, does not consent to further requests for payment relating to the PCN  [PCN number].  Further contact to [my name] to pursue payment without a court order, either by the issuer of the PCN or any agencies or companies acting on their behalf, will be taken as agreement by the issuer to pay an Unwanted Contact Charge of £100 per incident (which may be reduced to £50 if payment is made within 14 days of the date of issue). Contact may be made to inform [my name] of the cancellation of this PCN but no additional contact should be made, other than a court summons if the issuer of the PCN believes they have sufficient evidence to do so.

Essentially a PCN is an invoice which they say you agree to pay for breaching their terms, so I have issued terms to them which if they breach, I'd like to use against them. I just wanted to find out if there is any precedent for this, or if anyone has tried anything similar before?

B789

Which PPC? You do realise that most of these PPCs employ intellectually challenged staff so that their owners don't feel out of place. Depending on which PPC, you are still likely to get reminders and/or DRA letters.

As you have exhausted the appeal process, you are in line for the inevitable LoC and claim if it is one of the more litigious PPCs.

What I am surprised at is your use of the term "fine" when you have described it correctly as an invoice, a speculative one at that.

Just wait for the claim or for it to disappear depending on which PPC. If you get a claim, come back and you'll get advice.

In the meantime, read and study the Newbies/FAQ thread and every time you have a question, refer back to that thread as it is your reference guide.

Le_Kirk

Contact may be made to inform [my name] of the cancellation of this PCN but no additional contact should be made, other than a court summons if the issuer of the PCN believes they have sufficient evidence to do so.

It won't be a summons!

Nelliegrace

Good luck.I remember someone doing similar with nuisance phone calls.

Jopkins

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80026720#Comment_80026720

"Fine" was a misused term.

Yes I'm of course not going to pursue it, but if they do continue to contact me I will invoice them for it - I'm sure they won't pay, but if they then do make a claim, a bonus fun point will be that although they won't be successful, I can demonstrate to the judge that I have invoiced them for their actions.

Who knows, it's a long shot but I thought it might be fun to try.

1505grandad

"Who knows, it's a long shot but I thought it might be fun to try."

Just a thought - why not call it a PCN:-

Penurious Contact Notification - (other words are available)
(Penurious: Extremely poor; stingy and parsimonious.)

Mouse007

Reminds me of the fax machine I used to have in my office. Fed up with spam faxes costing me paper I responded to each one with an invoice for using my fax machine, didn’t take long for them to stop coming through.

On a technical point you would need to establish a contract to be able to send them a charge for contacting you. That is you need to be offering them something in return for the consideration. That has to be something new, something which they do not already have. If they already have the right to contact you anyway to ask for payment there is no new offer. No offer, no contract.

Now take this back to your permit position. Why did you display a permit? If you already had the right to park the permit gave you nothing new. See where I am going?

If this ultimately ends up with a County Court Claim (not summons) then your prime defence may well be there was no contract followed by even if there was

there was no breach.

95Rollers

I'm thinking of doing something like this next time someone i know gets Double Dipped. I've helped people out with their cases and I think next time we'll have some fun threatening to sue them for a Data breach due to their failure to follow their own ATA's ANPR guidance.

Let us know how you get on Jopkins.

Most PPCs (and their legals and DRAs) are pathetic greedy stingy bullyboy hypocrites who are more than happy dishing it out, but turn into bleating cry babies when something isn't "fair" for rhem I've come to learn during my journey. So you might gave to follow up with beating them in court as it'll probably be like getting money from a stone even when they know they are in the wrong.

Half_way

Why do you need a permit to park there? is this your own space?

If it is and you want to play their games, then you could try a trespass notice on them - they tresspassed on your property and as aa result you have suffered a loss ( as in time in dealing with their nonsense ) at £19/hour or part thereof.

LoneStarState

Alternatively, if it's a case of them sticking a notice on the windscreen, trespass is one option or offering the right to advertise on your vehicle for a PCN equivalent fee.