Euro Car Parks (Sainsburys) - postal PCN not received, Notice to Keeper first correspondence

louise3291

* Driver parked in a Sainsbury's (Euro Car Parks) car park on 16/03/23 and ticket purchased.
* Due to faulty ticket machines, driver was unable to buy another ticket to cover the remaining time required and a windscreen PCN was received for overstaying (approx. 20 mins) but with no paperwork enclosed/no information on PCN number etc. - just the yellow plastic square. The driver witnessed this being placed on the vehicle by the parking attendant and explained the situation re the faulty machines, but was told it was too late to retract it once issued and they would have to appeal.
* No follow-up postal PCN was received at all and therefore the driver had no information about the PCN and how to appeal or pay. First correspondence was a Notice to Keeper dated 18/04/2023 stating the PCN number and that 'The driver has failed to pay the notice amount within the time specified, as per the displayed terms and conditions on site. The discounted amount no longer applies...'

As no postal PCN was received and the Notice to Keeper was the first piece of correspondence detailing the PCN, can the driver use the standard one size fits all template for an appeal here? Or is the PCN invalid due to the length of time between the 'windscreen' PCN being issued and first NTK being received?

Thanks in advance.
 

Fruitcake

The driver should sit on their hands in the corner, and say and do absolutely nothing.

The NTK is the postal PCN, and The Keeper should be the only one dealing with this. They should first invoke Plan A, a complaint to the landowner and their MP. If that fails then it is the keeper who should send the one size fits all template in blue text from the NEWBIES sticky Announcement.

The keeper should look at the photos on the appeal portal to see if the NTD was inside the plastic wallet stuck to the car. It is not unheard of for NTDs to magically disappear after the parking operative has taken a photo of it in situe.

Nothing makes the NTK invalid, but it might be non-PoFA compliant and therefore incapable of holding the keeper liable.
You need to check the dates and wording of the NTK against the wording of the PoFA to determine this.

louise3291

Thanks, Fruitcake.

The windscreen PCN was not a plastic wallet - just a flimsy yellow plastic square with 'Parking Charge Notice' on it - and the driver saw this being affixed to the vehicle. It 100% did not have anything inside it. The keeper has checked the appeals portal and there doesn't appear to be any photos attached to the PCN either.

There was absolutely no opportunity for a discounted amount to be paid, as the keeper had no information about the PCN prior to the NTK being received which states the discounted amount no longer applies - this doesn't seem right to me...

Fruitcake

Don't fixate on the lack of a mugs' discount. None of the regulars will ever suggest you take it, let alone pay anything at all to an unregulated private parking company.

You could add it to the keeper's initial appeal and in a complaint to them and the BPA, but don't expect anything to be done about it.

If the plastic wallet on the windscreen was definitely empty then no NTD was given. This may mean that the NTK was no-PoFA compliant, but it will depend on the date of the alleged event and the date the NTK was given (received).

If it was non-PoFA complaint either on dates and/or on wording, then a one liner to that effect should be included in the initial keeper appeal, but I stress, the keeper should try Plan A first without revealing the driver's identity.

Coupon-mad

Get Sainsbury's CEO to cancel it.

B789

As advised above by @Fruitcake, invoke Plan A. You can also try Plan B with an appeal to ECP but don't hold out for any success with that. I think ECP do issue PoFA-compliant PCNs these days. At least the one my nephew received last week for a similar reason was definitely PoFA-compliant. His was at a Morrisons and so Plan A is easy with them, you just use their on-line complaints webpage.

Plan C with the IAS is doomed before you begin so don't waste your time and effort with that. ECP don't do Plan D but they will invoke the wrath of the useless debt collectors.

You will know, if you've really read and re-read the Newbies/FAQ thread that DRAs are powerless to do anything. They rely on gullible victims pooping their pants at the mere mention of CCJs and bailiffs and then capitulating and paying the now enhanced fee of circa £170.

Eventually, ECP will decide they've had enough and they will fade out of your life until the next time you use one of their or their equally scammy private parking firms' car parks. At least you won't have been marked as a "mug" for having coughed up to save with the bribe discount or worse, capitulated and coughed up the whole amount.

So, you save yourself some dosh, you don't pay these scammers a penny and just put up with a free ream of debt collector letters which you can either use as emergency loo paper or line the bottom of a bird cage.

Fruitcake

B789 said:

Plan C with the IAS is doomed before you begin so don't waste your time and effort with that. ECP don't do Plan D but they will invoke the wrath of the useless debt collectors.

Euro Car Parks Ltd are BPA members, not IPC, so it will be PoPLA not IAS, which is worth a punt for a second stage appeal.

B789

@Fruitcake, thanks for that correction. ECP is indeed BPA and POPLA applies.

louise3291

Thanks all for your responses. After writing to Sainsbury's CEO Simon Roberts directly, I received a phone call from someone in the Sainsbury's Executive Office today who confirmed that they will be contacting Euro Car Parks to get the PCN cancelled (I have asked for a follow-up email as confirmation once this has been done). 

Boat_to_Bolivia

Good result and well done for asking for confirmation in writing.

Coupon-mad

louise3291 said:

Thanks all for your responses. After writing to Sainsbury's CEO Simon Roberts directly, I received a phone call from someone in the Sainsbury's Executive Office today who confirmed that they will be contacting Euro Car Parks to get the PCN cancelled (I have asked for a follow-up email as confirmation once this has been done). 

Glad it worked!

Please come back for the Summer Public Consultation all about the level of parking charges.