What am I missing? Roof replacement cost

Anthony147

I’m somewhat confused and can only conclude the quotes I’m getting for a roof recoding are somewhat egregious given the amount and hope the collective mind can clarify.

It’s a roof recovering for a 3 bed semi in South London so has hips and my simplistic breakdown was:
Skip = £1000
Scaffold = £1500
Tiles and sundries £4000 (Redland 49’s, barrier and battons)
Labour = 2000 
Margin / Profit / business costs = £2500
which I thought was somewhat generous?? - putting the job at around £10k all in 

Two quotes have come back at £21k and £23k

Are there things / considerations I’m missing to explain or justify the extra 10k+?

Anthony147

Just to add - They have NOT included soffits, fascia’s or guttering which both have said would be extra.

dil1976

I am not a roofer but you labour costs seem very low for London I would imagine there is 6-7 days work there on your roof, so I would be thinking labour would be around £800 a day minimum for 2 roofers and a labourer which would come out at about  £6k for a start

Anthony147

dil1976 said:

I am not a roofer but you labour costs seem very low for London I would imagine there is 6-7 days work there on your roof, so I would be thinking labour would be around £800 a day minimum for 2 roofers and a labourer which would come out at about  £6k for a start

Will respectfully disagree - Literally seen covering removed and batten, barrier in a day and tiled the next with a four person crew - £250 a day for each man (averaged - skilled may get more, labourer less) and note - that is marginless cost as I’ve allowed for that. I’d also point out that if Labour was the cost you’ve mentioned - it’s still 5k out?

I’d also point the every cost I found using retail was rounded up, padded and includes VAT - hence skip £1k, scaffold £1.5k and materials £4k priced without being in trades or regular user discounting.

As initially questioned - Am I missing something?

Are there any roofers or trades that would input or a comment?

Tucosalamanca

Your costs are way out, as are your expectations of how fast roofers will work.

For London, upwards of £20k would seem about right.

A straightforward 2 bed terrace is about the only roof costing less than £10k these days.

*Edit*
I've just ran it through my spreadsheet.
Assuming 80sqm (modest 3 bed semi), my non London price is £15,000 + vat.

Access, materials & waste (inc my markup) £10,000 plus vat
Labour (20 days @ £250 per day) £5,000 plus vat

Anthony147

Tucosalamanca said:

Your costs are way out, as are your expectations of how fast roofers will work.

For London, upwards of £20k would seem about right.

A straightforward 2 bed terrace is about the only roof costing less than £10k these days.

Just seen your edit including costs - So in reality I’m not missing anything, it’s simply how much is wanted to make on the job - around 100% margin on access, waste and materials against retail prices, Labour between you are your crew and £5k margin on top for the job itself.

Fair enough - It’s simply, in my opinion the 10k is just additional margin on top - not that I’ve missed anything.

Tucosalamanca

Anthony147 said:

dil1976 said:

I am not a roofer but you labour costs seem very low for London I would imagine there is 6-7 days work there on your roof, so I would be thinking labour would be around £800 a day minimum for 2 roofers and a labourer which would come out at about  £6k for a start

Will respectfully disagree - Literally seen covering removed and batten, barrier in a day and tiled the next with a four person crew - £250 a day for each man (averaged - skilled may get more, labourer less) and note - that is marginless cost as I’ve allowed for that. I’d also point out that if Labour was the cost you’ve mentioned - it’s still 5k out?

I’d also point the every cost I found using retail was rounded up, padded and includes VAT - hence skip £1k, scaffold £1.5k and materials £4k priced without being in trades or regular user discounting.

As initially questioned - Am I missing something?

Are there any roofers or trades that would input or a comment?

How many skips do you think are needed? (clue, it's several)

Have you taken separate scaffolding prices? (you're allowing £500 per side, inc vat. I can't believe it's that cheap in London)

Your materials estimate, how have you come to this figure?

Tucosalamanca

Anthony147 said:

Tucosalamanca said:

Your costs are way out, as are your expectations of how fast roofers will work.

For London, upwards of £20k would seem about right.

A straightforward 2 bed terrace is about the only roof costing less than £10k these days.

Just seen your edit including costs - So in reality I’m not missing anything, it’s simply how much is wanted to make on the job - around 100% margin on access, waste and materials against retail prices, Labour between you are your crew and £5k margin on top for the job itself.

Fair enough - It’s simply, in my opinion the 10k is just additional margin on top - not that I’ve missed anything.

You're way off I'm afraid. I wish I was earning those kind of margins

Anthony147

Tucosalamanca said:

Anthony147 said:

dil1976 said:

I am not a roofer but you labour costs seem very low for London I would imagine there is 6-7 days work there on your roof, so I would be thinking labour would be around £800 a day minimum for 2 roofers and a labourer which would come out at about  £6k for a start

Will respectfully disagree - Literally seen covering removed and batten, barrier in a day and tiled the next with a four person crew - £250 a day for each man (averaged - skilled may get more, labourer less) and note - that is marginless cost as I’ve allowed for that. I’d also point out that if Labour was the cost you’ve mentioned - it’s still 5k out?

I’d also point the every cost I found using retail was rounded up, padded and includes VAT - hence skip £1k, scaffold £1.5k and materials £4k priced without being in trades or regular user discounting.

As initially questioned - Am I missing something?

Are there any roofers or trades that would input or a comment?

How many skips do you think are needed? (clue, it's several)

Have you taken separate scaffolding prices? (you're allowing £500 per side, inc vat. I can't believe it's that cheap in London)

Your materials estimate, how have you come to this figure?

The job came up as four were done on the same street (hence skip, scaffold and materials were not finger in the air) - all used just the large one skip, none took more than three days and none had more than a four man crew.

As the professional providing input, it’s appreciated and all the best to you - I have the clarity I sought and in my mind, the prices are about nothing more than margins but good on you for getting it.

Anthony147

Tucosalamanca said:

Anthony147 said:

Tucosalamanca said:

Your costs are way out, as are your expectations of how fast roofers will work.

For London, upwards of £20k would seem about right.

A straightforward 2 bed terrace is about the only roof costing less than £10k these days.

Just seen your edit including costs - So in reality I’m not missing anything, it’s simply how much is wanted to make on the job - around 100% margin on access, waste and materials against retail prices, Labour between you are your crew and £5k margin on top for the job itself.

Fair enough - It’s simply, in my opinion the 10k is just additional margin on top - not that I’ve missed anything.

You're way off I'm afraid. I wish I was earning those kind of margins

Whilst not wanting to antagonise, can only surmise your suppliers are gutting you as my prices are from the retail, internet or asking people doing the work (skips, scaffold).

Peace out all and thanks

dil1976

If you neighbours have had the same size roof done why not ask them how much and who did it.

Also the chances are the company will be vat registered so you can add another 20% onto any figure you have got.

No company put 100% profit on jobs