80 year old widow - vulnerable?

sevenhills

housebuyer143 said:

https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/discussion\/6443249\/80-year-old-widow-vulnerable<\/a><\/p>

Should estate agents assume that because someone is of pensionable age that they must be vulnerable? Sounds ageist to me. Your mother wasn't coerced into signing the contract straight away as the contract was left with her to mull over without him present, she could have asked you for help if she felt unsure but she didn't. You weren't present when the estate agent was there so you don't know what was and what was no explained to her. <\/p>","bodyRaw":"[{\"type\":\"rich_embed_card\",\"children\":[{\"text\":\"\"}],\"dataSourceType\":\"url\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/discussion\/6443249\/80-year-old-widow-vulnerable\",\"embedData\":{\"recordID\":6443249,\"recordType\":\"discussion\",\"body\":\"My mother has been trying to sell her house. She signed a contract for sole seller with her estate agent because he told her he had a buyer lined up. This buyer never materialised after she signed the contract and I cannot help wondering whether he ever existed. She has had a few offers via the estate agent but well below the price she needed to agree a sale, and told the estate agent she wanted to give notice. They promised to get back to her with details of the contract but never did. When a neighbour approached her to sell to a friend she believed she was able to accept a lower price than before (deducting the cost of the commission off the asking price). At this stage the estate agent has said they can claim commission on the transaction she found, if it goes through (which according to the contract they can). I wrote an email from her giving them notice which she sent. The next day they emailed her telling her they would continue to work on her behalf (ignoring the note). 

When I discussed what was happening with her she clearly did not understand what sole seller meant. When I asked the estate agent whether he had taken into consideration her age and vulnerable status (single widow, in financial difficulty) he said he had left the contract with her before asking her to sign it.

The Property Ombudsman lists age as an indicator of vulnerability and requires estate agents who are signed up to their code of conduct to cater for their needs. It specifically mentions not making assumptions about the knowledge that a seller has of the selling process.

Has anyone any knowledge of how the Property Ombudsman has applied the guidelines relating to vulnerability? I realise that regulator guidelines are purposely vague (that tends to cause businesses who are regulated by them to err on the side of caution) but are there any good tests related to vulnerability that I can use to judge whether my suspicion that the estate agent is in breach is reasonable?

Money is tight for her. I am inclined to offer without prejudice to pay the contract cancellation fee (£3k) as full and final settlement. This might either be unnecessary (if he is clearly in breach) and I am clearly negotiating from a position of weakness because I am unsure how strong my claim would be if it became official.

Does anyone have experience of The Property Ombudsman? 

My impression of the estate agent is that they are a bit wide, which would be ok if it was me who was the buyer (for example), but putting aside the regulator my judgement is that he should have taken a little more time to explain what everything meant. The regulator requires that the estate agent ensures the necessary arrangements are in place to provide the vulnerable consumer with the advice and guidance they need.\",\"bodyRaw\":\"My mother has been trying to sell her house. She signed a contract for sole seller with her estate agent because he told her he had a buyer lined up. This buyer never materialised after she signed the contract and I cannot help wondering whether he ever existed. She has had a few offers via the estate agent but well below the price she needed to agree a sale, and told the estate agent she wanted to give notice. They promised to get back to her with details of the contract but never did. When a neighbour approached her to sell to a friend she believed she was able to accept a lower price than before (deducting the cost of the commission off the asking price). At this stage the estate agent has said they can claim commission on the transaction she found, if it goes through (which according to the contract they can). I wrote an email from her giving them notice which she sent. The next day they emailed her telling her they would continue to work on her behalf (ignoring the note).&nbsp;

When I discussed what was happening with her she clearly did not understand what sole seller meant. When I asked the estate agent whether he had taken into consideration her age and vulnerable status (single widow, in financial difficulty) he said he had left the contract with her before asking her to sign it.

The Property Ombudsman lists age as an indicator of vulnerability and requires estate agents who are signed up to their code of conduct to cater for their needs. It specifically mentions not making assumptions about the knowledge that a seller has of the selling process.

Has anyone any knowledge of how the Property Ombudsman has applied the guidelines relating to vulnerability? I realise that regulator guidelines are purposely vague (that tends to cause businesses who are regulated by them to err on the side of caution) but are there any good tests related to vulnerability that I can use to judge whether my suspicion that the estate agent is in breach is reasonable?

Money is tight for her. I am inclined to offer without prejudice to pay the contract cancellation fee (£3k) as full and final settlement. This might either be unnecessary (if he is clearly in breach) and I am clearly negotiating from a position of weakness because I am unsure how strong my claim would be if it became official.

Does anyone have experience of The Property Ombudsman?&nbsp;

My impression of the estate agent is that they are a bit wide, which would be ok if it was me who was the buyer (for example), but putting aside the regulator my judgement is that he should have taken a little more time to explain what everything meant. The regulator requires that the estate agent ensures the necessary arrangements are in place to provide the vulnerable consumer with the advice and guidance they need.\",\"format\":\"wysiwyg\",\"dateInserted\":\"2023-04-29T10:25:10+00:00\",\"insertUser\":{\"userID\":1655095,\"name\":\"ed_r\",\"title\":\"\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/profile\/ed_r\",\"photoUrl\":\"https:\/\/us-noi.v-cdn.net\/6031891\/uploads\/defaultavatar\/nFA7H6UNOO0N5.jpg\",\"dateLastActive\":\"2023-05-02T20:30:27+00:00\",\"banned\":0,\"punished\":0,\"private\":false,\"label\":\"Forumite<\/b><\/span>\"},\"displayOptions\":{\"showUserLabel\":false,\"showCompactUserInfo\":true,\"showDiscussionLink\":true,\"showPostLink\":true,\"showCategoryLink\":false,\"renderFullContent\":false,\"expandByDefault\":false},\"url\":\"https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/discussion\/6443249\/80-year-old-widow-vulnerable\",\"embedType\":\"quote\",\"name\":\"80 year old widow - vulnerable?\"}},{\"type\":\"p\",\"children\":[{\"text\":\"Should estate agents assume that because someone is of pensionable age that they must be vulnerable? Sounds ageist to me. Your mother wasn't coerced into signing the contract straight away as the contract was left with her to mull over without him present, she could have asked you for help if she felt unsure but she didn't. You weren't present when the estate agent was there so you don't know what was and what was no explained to her. \"}]}]","format":"rich2","dateInserted":"2023-05-02T23:08:30+00:00","insertUser":{"userID":3184584,"name":"_Penny_Dreadful","url":"https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/profile\/_Penny_Dreadful","photoUrl":"https:\/\/us-noi.v-cdn.net\/6031891\/uploads\/userpics\/2EQO84XO87D1\/nHNPG5SY954QP.jpg","dateLastActive":"2023-05-03T14:44:16+00:00","banned":0,"punished":0,"private":false,"label":"Forumite<\/b><\/span>"},"displayOptions":{"showUserLabel":false,"showCompactUserInfo":true,"showDiscussionLink":false,"showPostLink":false,"showCategoryLink":false,"renderFullContent":false,"expandByDefault":false},"url":"https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/discussion\/comment\/80028529#Comment_80028529","embedType":"quote","embedStyle":"rich_embed_card"}">

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80028529#Comment_80028529

Some responsibility needs to be placed with the agents to determine if someone has the mental capacity or at least the understanding to understand what they are signing.

My relative has mental health issues and has been declared bankrupt once.
Should all her debts be voided because she lacks common sense?

CKhalvashi

theoretica said:

Can you get any evidence, other than you mother's say so, that they said they had a client lined up to buy it?  Lying to secure a financial advantage is called fraud...

You'll have a really difficult time proving that, to the extent it will probably be impossible.

I've just gone through a house sale where the agent genuinely did have a potential client lined up to buy it. That fell through for reasons outside the agents, client and our control. I know it's true though as I've met the client (plus that the agent is a long standing friend).

Several months later with the most difficult buyer you could imagine (and one of the most difficult this agent has ever seen. I'm happier the agents have dealt with her instead of us and we've since felt compelled to tell her through lawyers to leave us, our agents and any other representatives alone unless she wishes to bring a claim through the courts), we finally got there and the sale completed few weeks ago.

There likely were several parties on the books who would have looked at a similar property to the one on offer and on that basis I'd say probably the agent hasn't lied.