Automatic handbrake to manual learner

bobbybuttons

My son age 17 is learning to drive and has been having lessons for 6 months and can drive his instructors car really well , it has automatic handbrake and hill assist. He also owns his own car which doesnt have these features.
I've taken him out in his own car little citroen c1 and he insists on using clutch , brake only and being quick so he doesn't roll back . When I get him to use his manual handbrake he constantly stalls even on flatter roads.
We've already had the biting point lowered to see if it made it easier as they are usually high in these cars . 
His instructor says he's ready to take his test and it's booked , he's got a cancellation beginning may . I found this hard to believe as I've been with him in his own car and I come out terrified as he's really not good at finding the biting point ,still stalls a lot and is not used to using a handbrake . I asked to sit in with his instructor on a lesson and he was better in his instructors car. 
What worries me is if he passes this test in his instructors car he'll then be free on the road in his own car , which he absolutely cannot drive very well yet, cannot use the handbrake and won't have anyone to assist him. 
There must be others in this situation as a lot of newer instuctors cars have these features and many new younger drivers can't afford newer cars. 
As much as I really want to remain positive for him it terrifies me he'll be free on the road in a car he can't drive.

Goudy

The auto handbrake will release in one of two ways.
Pressing and holding the foot brake pedal down while releasing the switch.
Or
Coordinating the clutch and accelerator to move away (the bite point) will automatically release the handbrake.

The examiner will want to see the student perform a hill start adequately, without losing of control. So the student still has to show they can perform a start on a incline by controlling the car with the clutch and accelerator on a test in a manual car with either system.

The only difference between electronic and manual handbrake in this instance is the fact they are not releasing the handbrake manually, the car does it for them at the correct time.

They still have to set the clutch and accelerator to the bite point first before the handbrake is release, otherwise there is a loss of control (rolling back).

Knowing small French cars as I do, I would suggest the problem might not be the electronic or manual handbrake but the clutch feel in his C1.
They are pretty awful and almost always feel like an on off switch.

I would think with some practice and encouragement he'll should master this, though writing that we did ditch a C2 that our son started to learn to drive in a few years ago because of the clutch, even after I fitted a new clutch there was still no feel.

Grey_Critic

But is he learning to drive or learning to pass a test in a particular` vehicle. In mu years in the trade I drove wide variety of vehicles and each has its own particular quirks.

The test for an automatic was brought in as because there is a differencde in how you drive one from a manual.I remember my boss getting an automatic. The first time he drove it he did a spectaculat 360 on a roundabout that just for a couple of minutes was empty.- I thought he was going to overturm itwhen it went ontp two wheels.

They used to say that having passed your test you then learnt to drive. Have you raised your comments with the instructor?

theoretica

I drove one car for years and then had to buy a new one - stalled nearly every time I tried to move off during the test drive as my previous car had not needed any accelerator to move off from standing, even in second gear... and the clutch feel was different.  But I very soon taught myself not to!  So much of learning to drive is dealing with the rules of the road and other cars, he will get that in whatever vehicle.

Herzlos

He needs to practise with the manual handbrake. Bring the clutch up until it bites, then slowly release the handbrake and then bring the clutch up some more.
Take him to a flat car park and get him to move the car around for a while using on the clutch to get used to it, then he should be fine.

If he does the foot brake and clutch trick on a test he risks being marked down for not being in proper control of the car.

bobbybuttons

Thank you. We've been out again today and I got him practicing just using the clutch to start moving forward on the flat and he mastered that easily. Once we mastered that we started on the hills and finding the bite , releasing the handbrake he realised he could actually hold it using the clutch alone , and then apply a little gas and bringing clutch fully up slowly to move forwards, he didn't need to over rev it and he didn't need to be very quick off the brake onto the accelerator.  He's loads more confident after today thanks for all your tips and it's made me feel a little more comfortable now knowing he's not going to reverse back into somebody on a hill. 😀

Bigwheels1111

Passing your test does not mean you can drive.
I passed my Bike, car, hgv2 and  hgv1 first time.
I went from a 125cc to a 750cc overnight, a fiesta for the test to a rover SD1 3,5L.
Never drove hgv2 or a hgv1 as such.
The test wast in a hg2 with a trailer making it a hgv1.
You only learn to drive by driving, hitting kurbs trees cars lamp post etc.
I hope you son does not end up upside down in a hedge like I did with my first car.

Car_54

bobbybuttons said:

Thank you. We've been out again today and I got him practicing just using the clutch to start moving forward on the flat and he mastered that easily. Once we mastered that we started on the hills and finding the bite , releasing the handbrake he realised he could actually hold it using the clutch alone , and then apply a little gas and bringing clutch fully up slowly to move forwards, he didn't need to over rev it and he didn't need to be very quick off the brake onto the accelerator.  He's loads more confident after today thanks for all your tips and it's made me feel a little more comfortable now knowing he's not going to reverse back into somebody on a hill. 😀

In my experience as an instructor, teaching hill starts was never difficult. Getting them to recognise an incline was a different story …

EssexExile

Bigwheels1111 said:

Passing your test does not mean you can drive.
I passed my Bike, car, hgv2 and  hgv1 first time.
I went from a 125cc to a 750cc overnight, a fiesta for the test to a rover SD1 3,5L.
Never drove hgv2 or a hgv1 as such.
The test wast in a hg2 with a trailer making it a hgv1.
You only learn to drive by driving, hitting kurbs trees cars lamp post etc.
I hope you son does not end up upside down in a hedge like I did with my first car.

I'm glad you were nowhere near me when you were learning to drive.

Bigwheels1111

EssexExile said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

Passing your test does not mean you can drive.
I passed my Bike, car, hgv2 and  hgv1 first time.
I went from a 125cc to a 750cc overnight, a fiesta for the test to a rover SD1 3,5L.
Never drove hgv2 or a hgv1 as such.
The test wast in a hg2 with a trailer making it a hgv1.
You only learn to drive by driving, hitting kurbs trees cars lamp post etc.
I hope you son does not end up upside down in a hedge like I did with my first car.

I'm glad you were nowhere near me when you were learning to drive.

Passing the test is easy, learning not to be a !!!!!! takes time.

Goudy

That news sounds great but I suggest you kept up with this practise for a while longer.

Most of us that have driven years don't find jumping between cars that much of a problem but once he's back in his instructors car and he's concentrating on driving that plus sucking in all that is being taught, he might start to push what he's learned about this to the back of his mind.

Me and the boy had a bit if a struggle for a short time when I sat in with him, practising in between lessons.
When you do it like this there is a tripping point. There comes a time when the student can clearly drive ok to test standards and the instructor is just polishing up that and the process starts becoming less of a learning process and more of a rinse and repeat process, particularly if they are waiting for a test date.

Out with you, hopefully you can still impart some more knowledge.
Our lad eventually started to cotton on that driving to a test standard is just the beginning of driving and learnt some valuable lessons.
It's quite satisfying to sit there and see them realise they are the ones driving correctly and start pointing out, anticipating and reacting safely to all the kn*bheads on the road!