Ebayer refunded buyer my rights?

jon81uk

bluemoonrising said:

You are spot on what you say. The queue at the post office can be ridiculous and you have to park up well I do as it’s not round the corner whereas my post box is. 

Then you need to consider that Royal Mail only pay out for loss if you have proof of posting (PoP) and work out whether it is worth your time going to the Royal Mail office or the Post Office to get PoP for those smaller items.

For larger items sent as small parcel you can get proof of postage by scanning it in the Royal Mail app.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Worth a note I've made a claim for a large letter that went in a post box (with no proof obviously) and the claim was paid. 

With the label having a QR code I wondered if it had been scanned somewhere show it had indeed been posted. 

soolin

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Worth a note I've made a claim for a large letter that went in a post box (with no proof obviously) and the claim was paid. 

With the label having a QR code I wondered if it had been scanned somewhere show it had indeed been posted. 

As I mentioned earlier about 70% of my LLs bought using ebay postage show delivery confirmation automatically on ebay so I do often take the risk of putting something in a post box rather than queue at the PO for three or 4 small items. I understand and accept the risk and realistically I get very few INRs and most of my items are sub £10 anyway. 

Buster_Danog

Exodi said:

While it's human nature to be cynical in such circumstances, you must at least consider - what if you're wrong?

What if it didn't arrive? What if the buyer did go to HMV and buy a replacement? What if it was for a birthday in a couple days time so they couldn't wait you to post another, and they didn't get the receipt because it was a gift?

I agree with this. As someone who has experienced awful service from Royal Mail, as well as items being delivered weeks late and to the wrong address I think it is possible that some items are not delivered. Secondly I am the type of person to shop around and would likely find an item elsewhere by the time the buyer agreed to send a replacement - Amazon, ebay, etc.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Buster_Danog said:

Exodi said:

While it's human nature to be cynical in such circumstances, you must at least consider - what if you're wrong?

What if it didn't arrive? What if the buyer did go to HMV and buy a replacement? What if it was for a birthday in a couple days time so they couldn't wait you to post another, and they didn't get the receipt because it was a gift?

I agree with this. As someone who has experienced awful service from Royal Mail, as well as items being delivered weeks late and to the wrong address I think it is possible that some items are not delivered. Secondly I am the type of person to shop around and would likely find an item elsewhere by the time the buyer agreed to send a replacement - Amazon, ebay, etc.

I've posted around three quarters of a million items of mail, most with Royal Mail and most via a large letter, there was always problems with non-delivery, usually accompanied by reasons of a gift or purchased elsewhere as to why a replacement wasn't wanted (items sold weren't the type you'd want two of). 

Royal Mail then introduced 2D barcodes but only gave business customers delivery confirmation on parcels, about 12 months later they turned it on for large letters as well and you could check the ref numbers for stuff from before they switched it on, from the buyers who claimed INR there was 3 that didn't show as delivered the other 12 or so had all been delivered.

Once they turned that delivery confirmation on and tracking was uploaded to orders INR claims went from 15-20 a year to about 5 with only around 1 a year not showing as delivered. 

I agree that mail does go missing but if you are packing items well and the addresses are clear and correct Royal Mail does a better job than they get credit for IMO. 

The buyers over the years who talked too much often gave inconsistent or weird answers to questions, the smart ones simply opened an INR with "not arrived" and then went silent. 

Based on my experience I'm extremely cynical of INR claims but equally understand without tracking showing as delivered there isn't much that can be done and it isn't appropriate to challenge the integrity of the buyer with them directly so ultimately just becomes an additional cost of selling rather than something to get wound up about.

I've seen buyers sell the item they claimed didn't arrive a few months later (nothing concrete of course but interesting none-the-less) and one buyer, from the days when feedback was much more open and revealing than it is now, was caught red handed as their online activity matched very well with all the items they'd been claiming INR for on eBay. 

Buster_Danog

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I've posted around three quarters of a million items of mail, most with Royal Mail and most via a large letter, there was always problems with non-delivery, usually accompanied by reasons of a gift or purchased elsewhere as to why a replacement wasn't wanted (items sold weren't the type you'd want two of...

I've seen buyers sell the item they claimed didn't arrive a few months later (nothing concrete of course but interesting none-the-less) and one buyer, from the days when feedback was much more open and revealing than it is now, was caught red handed as their online activity matched very well with all the items they'd been claiming INR for on eBay. 

I agree there are scammers and Royal Mail generally do a good job. However, a code being scanned as delivered does not mean it was actually delivered. I have had items left in the hallway, delivered to a wrong address, and a number of items have been left in a communal area on the ground floor of the building I live in.  All of them scanned as delivered.

I have had to write to the local sorting office a number of times. I have even seen one of the postmen who doesn't deliver items to people's doors with a big grin on his face when he got into the building I live in and left people's mail in an area where it could easily be stolen.

I guess it is down to what area you live in. Where I am I have had the most excellent Evri / Hermes delivery people. They are far better than the Royal Mail.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Buster_Danog said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I've posted around three quarters of a million items of mail, most with Royal Mail and most via a large letter, there was always problems with non-delivery, usually accompanied by reasons of a gift or purchased elsewhere as to why a replacement wasn't wanted (items sold weren't the type you'd want two of...

I've seen buyers sell the item they claimed didn't arrive a few months later (nothing concrete of course but interesting none-the-less) and one buyer, from the days when feedback was much more open and revealing than it is now, was caught red handed as their online activity matched very well with all the items they'd been claiming INR for on eBay. 

However, a code being scanned as delivered does not mean it was actually delivered. 

I do fully appreciate this, all I can say is the change was shocking, as time went on the claims became less and less. 

If a buyer claimed INR first thing I'd check is their feedback, it was common for there to be purchases with a varied array of sellers but it was common enough to become noticeable that some of these buyers weren't leaving feedback for high volume sellers. 

I can only assume it was thought they were less likely to take it personally, know there was nothing that could be done and simply issue a no fuss refund, perhaps it was felt they could afford to lose £10, £15, £20 so there's nothing wrong it. 

I haven't read the Amazon selling forums for a long time now but I do remember many complaints of Amazon refunding third party orders for INR despite the tracking showing as delivered. With higher volume sellers shipping Royal Mail now getting delivery confirmation on all mail and eBay sticking firmly to delivery scan = no refund I do wonder if the scammers simply jumped ship. 

And for those buyers who genuinely suffered the kind of examples you gave, perhaps no longer having quick access to a refund meant they had to knock on their neighbours door, put up a note asking the postie not to leave post in communal areas, check their recycling bins for mail before collection day to assist in issues not occurring. 

soolin

My OH is currently in the midst of trying to sort out a lost package sent RM48 tracked about 2 weeks ago.

Online shop, one we use regularly , is saying that the tracking shows delivery , which is does, but the photo proof is just a black square . We were home at day and time of delivery and we have a fully functioning Ring doorbell that shows our postman arriving early at 9.30am, and no one approaching the front door at 3.47 PM as delivery confirmation states.

Shop is dealing with RM who apparently are not being helpful due to lack of photo showing item being delivered.

Buster_Danog

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I do fully appreciate this, all I can say is the change was shocking, as time went on the claims became less and less. 


And for those buyers who genuinely suffered the kind of examples you gave, perhaps no longer having quick access to a refund meant they had to knock on their neighbours door, put up a note asking the postie not to leave post in communal areas, check their recycling bins for mail before collection day to assist in issues not occurring. 

For sure. I don't doubt scamming was more convenient in the past. I have had a seller ask me to check with neighbours. She had sent it as a large letter so there was no delivery confirmation. She didn't seem happy to refund. I later found the letter had gone to a wrong address in another building. I was honest enough to pay her through paypal but some people might not.

I have heard horror stories about. Amazon but have not yet had any bad experience with them.

soolin said:

My OH is currently in the midst of trying to sort out a lost package sent RM48 tracked about 2 weeks ago...

Shop is dealing with RM who apparently are not being helpful due to lack of photo showing item being delivered.

Don't say that. I have just sent another Tracked 48 and am always worried when the tracking doesn't update for a day or two. A few days back I had a photo confirming delivery of my item, but it was someone else's parcel. Not an issue unless I need the evidence, but somehow the wrong photo, or no photo at all can get uploaded.