How to get a pension quote from Barclays?

DavidexBarclays

ian16527 said:

Can you not estimate it?
Take your leaving figure and use the inflation rate for each year subsequently but with regard to your scheme rules on indexation.
Then use say 2.5% for the remaining years till retirement - it will give you a rough idea, as I did when wanting an estimation of my own DB pension.
Or if Barclays allow early retirement from 55, ask them for a quote to retire at say 56 and work from there

Thanks Ian. Yes, I have done this exercise but I'd rather not rely on my 'workings' and feel WTW should provide the information which I've asked for. It seems totally unreasonable to refuse this given the two main functions of the calculation (my final salary and the number of years I worked) are clearly 'known'. 

DT2001

I took my pension early (2011) at which time the administration was dealt with in house. The quotes I received related to specific dates but did not show the actuarial reduction. At one stage I was given an indication of the % reduction and could therefore, I thought, have worked out my expected pension at NRD. That is not necessarily the case as the calculation might include a step up relating to GMP. So as ian16257 suggests take the figure you were given when leaving and calculate forward by RPI (exc latest year as maximum is 5% increase). In addition there will be a GMP equalisation calculation

From my experience things to watch out for are: -
1. Do you definitely have the option to draw your pension before NRD - this may seem obvious as you can get a quote but I know an ex colleague who resigned and couldn’t draw his pension until 60. 

2. If you draw early then any increases between drawdown and GMP age are able to be franked.
3. You can work out your GMP figure due at 65 from the figure when leaving to 65 by increasing by 4.5% p.a. if you left 6/4/2002 or later or 6.25% prior to 6/4
4. At SPA you will be subject to a reduction which was set when you left
5. WTW allocate questions to different people each time you ask so you do not get continuity if asking for clarification - even when replying to a particular person.
6. Keep copies of WTW’s replies
7. Take screen shots of your page on their website that shows cases outstanding. There are a maximum of 3 shown and sometimes these show as resolved without a reply having been received.
8. WTW can and do get it wrong so if in doubt ask again and their source of reference.
9. If you haven’t already read by 2nd thread I will say that what I was told in 2018 regarding what happens to my pension at 65 is different to what they are now saying. I queried their GMP calculation as it seemed to use a different method. The difference is £4.5k p.a. (A 1/3). WTW did not answer my question about this and so I referred the matter to the trustees. It is deemed complex, not simple, so will take up to 4 months before any reply is sent.

The trustees job is to ensure everyone is treated fairly. Some aspects are complex and I do have sympathy however the simpler tasks should be carried out better.

I do know I write making assumptions which maybe wrong so if I can explain anything better please ask!

Good luck

Brie

Oh and don't rely on WTW getting it right.  They didn't on one of the 3 pensions they have of mine.  (not Barclays)

sandsy

I'm a deferred member of another scheme which does exactly the same. It's infuriating. But to the best of my knowledge, there is no legal or regulatory requirement to provide projected benefits to deferred scheme members.  Now that I'm old enough, I request early retirement quotes each year and check revaluation orders etc to try and work it out as best I can.

DavidexBarclays

Thanks for this @DT2001 and @Brie

I have created a graph based on the 'early retirement' quotes that WTW can supply via the Barclays Pension website. These I've extrapolated to see what (roughly) the figure may be at my NRD in October 2027. This may (or may not) be accurate, hence my wish to get a figure from WTW rather than attempting the above 'rough and ready' calculation. This seems to tie in with the suggestion by @sandsy (for which thanks also). I note @sandsy suggestion that 'there is no legal or regulatory requirement to provide projected benefits' but this is slightly at odds with the helpful link provided earlier by @Tommyjw

I am getting the feeling that WTW are (to say the least) not highly regarded !

Notwithstanding they (WTW) may or may not be able to say there's no requirement to provide this information, in my mind this is a fundamental 'need' by all those who have a deferred DB pension. The fact that some organisations provide this (see my original post referring to the fact my wife is provided with this info by her (local government) scheme) suggests that it's not impossible for all schemes to provide this. 

Of course this may be a policy decision made by the "Barclays 1964" scheme trustees - in which case I rather suspect that if I stood for election as a trustee, this may concentrate their minds somewhat in terms of re-thinking such a policy decision. 

However, I'll see where I get to in the first instance with the complaint I've lodged. If anyone else can provide further suggestions, that would be helpful for the forthcoming 'battle' ! 

xylophone

However, I'll see where I get to in the first instance with the complaint I've lodged. If anyone else can provide further suggestions, that would be helpful for the forthcoming 'battle' ! 

Did you read Mike Floutier's posts (link in my previous)?

DavidexBarclays

Thanks @xylophone - yes I did, but am I missing something you are trying to draw my attention to?

@MikeFloutier it seems he (eventually) managed to elicit a full(?) response from WTW for his particular question which is subtly different from mine. All I am seeking is the basic 'what is my pension going to be when I get to 60?').

Fundamentally, WTW (or Barclays 1964 scheme trustees) seem to be unwilling to supply to me (and other deferred members) an illustration of what the pension will be at 'Normal Retirement Age'. 

My 'fight' with WTW is on the basis that I believe this information should be supplied and to be unwilling to provide is fundamentally wrong/unfair/unreasonable. The link provided by @Tommyjw to the UK.Gov website is a strong counter-argument to this refusal. 

I remain very grateful to everyone who has responded here. 

David

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Fundamentally, WTW (or Barclays 1964 scheme trustees) seem to be unwilling to supply to me (and other deferred members) an illustration of what the pension will be at 'Normal Retirement Age'. 

Given you are 4.5 years away from NPA that's not something they would be able to provide though.

They could provide an estimate using estimated future inflation values but that would be what you might get.  Not what you will get.

xylophone

yes I did, but am I missing something you are trying to draw my attention to?

Mike was closer to Scheme NRA (60) than you ( he had around six months to go) but nevertheless like you was a deferred member of the scheme.

The calculation here is Mike's for taking the pension at scheme NRA

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63406494/#Comment_63406494

Did you go through the Barclays Scheme style calculation and note the mechanics?

I found it a somewhat alien method as in the scheme with which I am most familiar, at scheme NRA of 60, the whole pension would include the GMP revalued to age 60.

 For men (GMP age 65), the whole amount would then increase under scheme rules (uncapped RPI) until GMP age at which point it would be split into revalued Pre 88 GMP, revalued post 88 GMP and excess and thereafter would increase as to nil on pre 88, up to 3% CPI on post 88 and uncapped RPI on the remainder.

Presumably you have the statement of benefits on leaving  Barclays that would have been provided back in 2002.

What does it show as

 (a)  Pre 88 GMP

 (b) Post 88 GMP

 (c) Excess over GMP?

Now look at Mike's calculation.

Presumably you know your total GMP at date of leaving the scheme (and so do WTW).

This UNREVALUED figure is used for age 60 calculation.

However, they do not know what

Non-GMP potion (including annual pension increases since leaving active membership)

will be as they cannot know the rate of inflation between now and then.

It is  (a) + (b) + REVALUED (c) added together which will give you your scheme pension at age 60.

WTW will not make a guess at the rate of inflation to be used over the next four/five years to revalue (c) at age 65 although there is nothing to prevent your modelling anything from 0 to 5% RPI (maximum) to reach an estimate of what you will receive from age 60 up to age 65.

You will note that what WTW did do for Mike was to estimate the possible situation at age 65 when the pension calculation would include the revalued GMP.

The revalued GMP (Fixed Rate) was easy to calculate. Looking at the table linked in my previous, what is the FR for your date of leaving the scheme?

They used an estimate of 2.5% for revaluing the excess between age 60 and 65.

You will note the "step up" at age 65.

You should also check your personal calculation of the SPD that will be applied at state pension age.

Was Barclays your only contracted out scheme?

What is the COPE shown on your state pension forecast?

xylophone

And you may be interested in Mike's post at GMP age,

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75226562/#Comment_75226562