Feel ripped off by plumber

ComicGeek

ThisIsWeird said:

mi-key said:

I agree tradesmen should be paid a decent wage, but when you see some asking £100 an hour for labour that is getting ridiculous ( £150 - £200 K a year for someone who does stuff most reasonably competent DIYers can handle ). There really isn't a great deal of skill involved in plumbing and it doesn't take years to master the art. Let's be honest, most practical people could learn 90% of what a plumber does in 6 months  or less

Sadly since Brexit a lot of the Eastern European tradesmen ( who were normally cheaper and much harder workers ) have left, so the British ones who are left are in more demand and are charging much higher prices.

There is an awful lot of truth in that.

Apart from the 99% of it that's complete nonsense. I must be living in the only part of the UK that wasn't flooded by Eastern European tradesmen then....

Some of my work is really easy, and if people could be bothered or had more time then they could do it themselves. But they pay me to do it instead, doesn't mean I'm ripping them off.

Section62

Phil4432 said:

Not really, higher qualifications mean a better paid job.

That's reality.

Plumbers aren't as qualified as solicitors.  You can take that as a belittling of plumbers if you want, but that's a fact.

Criticize the system, capitalism if you like but that's the way it goes.

You can't take a job with lower training and qualifications, and expect the same pay as someone with more training and higher qualifications.

Really?  I always thought supply and demand was what set prices.  Whilst the need for higher qualifications has a limiting effect on the supply side, there are also other limiting factors such as the willingness of people to do more mundane jobs for clients that quibble about payment after you've done the job.

As others have said, getting a plumber out same day or next day is quite an achievement, for that kind of response more often than not you'd have to put yourself at the mercy of one of the chain/franchise companies and accept a much higher bill than the OP has been given.

There are more than a few contributors to this thread who have some basic DIY skills and therefore judge the value of the work on the basis of what it would cost them to do the job in their free time.

What the OP should be doing is to work out what her time as a busy single mum is worth to her, what she would have had to cancel or let their children down for in order to clear a day to work out how to fix the bath, buy the parts and fit them.  And if the fix actually involved "PTFE tape", the probable need to redo it again a few days/weeks later.

That's the basis of a trading society - if you don't want to do something because you are too busy, then you have to find someone willing to do the job at what they judge to be a fair price.  If you feel the price is too high, then there is almost always another option.  But you have to select that option before the job has been done by someone else.

ThisIsWeird

ComicGeek said:

ThisIsWeird said:

mi-key said:

I agree tradesmen should be paid a decent wage, but when you see some asking £100 an hour for labour that is getting ridiculous ( £150 - £200 K a year for someone who does stuff most reasonably competent DIYers can handle ). There really isn't a great deal of skill involved in plumbing and it doesn't take years to master the art. Let's be honest, most practical people could learn 90% of what a plumber does in 6 months  or less

Sadly since Brexit a lot of the Eastern European tradesmen ( who were normally cheaper and much harder workers ) have left, so the British ones who are left are in more demand and are charging much higher prices.

There is an awful lot of truth in that.

Apart from the 99% of it that's complete nonsense. I must be living in the only part of the UK that wasn't flooded by Eastern European tradesmen then....

Some of my work is really easy, and if people could be bothered or had more time then they could do it themselves. But they pay me to do it instead, doesn't mean I'm ripping them off.

Brexit has only made 1% difference to the cost of building and trades work?

ComicGeek

ThisIsWeird said:

ComicGeek said:

ThisIsWeird said:

mi-key said:

I agree tradesmen should be paid a decent wage, but when you see some asking £100 an hour for labour that is getting ridiculous ( £150 - £200 K a year for someone who does stuff most reasonably competent DIYers can handle ). There really isn't a great deal of skill involved in plumbing and it doesn't take years to master the art. Let's be honest, most practical people could learn 90% of what a plumber does in 6 months  or less

Sadly since Brexit a lot of the Eastern European tradesmen ( who were normally cheaper and much harder workers ) have left, so the British ones who are left are in more demand and are charging much higher prices.

There is an awful lot of truth in that.

Apart from the 99% of it that's complete nonsense. I must be living in the only part of the UK that wasn't flooded by Eastern European tradesmen then....

Some of my work is really easy, and if people could be bothered or had more time then they could do it themselves. But they pay me to do it instead, doesn't mean I'm ripping them off.

Brexit has only made 1% difference to the cost of building and trades work?

No sure what you are trying to suggest there, but on the dozens of construction sites across the South East that I visit on a regular basis there are pretty much the same number of overseas workers as there ever have been. It's only on the really dodgy sites that I visit that this has dropped, and I wouldn't like to think what those poor workers were actually being paid. I've no problem with overseas workers coming to work here, there are significant shortages of skilled workers in the industry - I'm just challenging the assertion that higher prices are the result of a lack of poorly paid Eastern European trademen.

ThisIsWeird

ComicGeek said:

Brexit has only made 1% difference to the cost of building and trades work?

No sure what you are trying to suggest there, but on the dozens of construction sites across the South East that I visit on a regular basis there are pretty much the same number of overseas workers as there ever have been. It's only on the really dodgy sites that I visit that this has dropped, and I wouldn't like to think what those poor workers were actually being paid. I've no problem with overseas workers coming to work here, there are significant shortages of skilled workers in the industry - I'm just challenging the assertion that higher prices are the result of a lack of poorly paid Eastern European trademen.

A highly emotive version of what was actually 'asserted'.

A lot of folk are finding their hoped-for extensions curtailed, often permanently. A great deal is down to C-19, but the loss of very well qualified EU workers is also a factor.

There's a dual issue at the moment - prices have gone up significantly, and there's a shortage of builders and tradesfolk.

GDB2222

ComicGeek said:

mi-key said:

I agree tradesmen should be paid a decent wage, but when you see some asking £100 an hour for labour that is getting ridiculous ( £150 - £200 K a year for someone who does stuff most reasonably competent DIYers can handle ). There really isn't a great deal of skill involved in plumbing and it doesn't take years to master the art. Let's be honest, most practical people could learn 90% of what a plumber does in 6 months  or less

Sadly since Brexit a lot of the Eastern European tradesmen ( who were normally cheaper and much harder workers ) have left, so the British ones who are left are in more demand and are charging much higher prices.

But they aren't doing 7 jobs a day, every day. Then there are vehicles, petrol, tools, training costs, insurances, phone, advertising etc, and lots of other business costs. You can't just take a single job charge and multiply that across the year and state that's take home pay!

If you don't want to pay the prices, then do it yourself that's fine. Don't get someone out to do a job without confirming prices, and then complain about it! 

"If you don't want to pay the prices, then do it yourself that's fine. Don't get someone out to do a job without confirming prices, and then complain about it! "

This entire thread is because the OP thought the problem was to do with the work the plumber did previously, so she thought he was going to come and fix it for nothing. Then she found out it was not linked to the previous work, so she had to pay.

Plus, she saw how easy it was to sort out, and she realised that she really could have DIY'ed it. So, now, she's kicking herself for not having diagnosed the issue in the first place. 

breaking_free

My 2 cents, because it will hopefully make the OP feel a bit better.

8 years ago I moved into my "doer upper" new home in St Albans, Herts <- - mentioning this because it's a darned expensive area and tradies charge accordingly! One radiator was dripping a little so I attempted to "ahem" fix it with a wrench. Somehow ended up with much more rapid dripping and a bent pipe.

In panic mode I rang round a bunch of plumbers, none of whom could come out till the next day. When one did turn up he told me up front that he charged a minimum of £65 per hour plus VAT. Took him all of 2 minutes to fix the drip using 2 wrenches (one to turn the fitting, another to stop the other pipe moving around). I was aghast at the price of 2 minutes' work so he suggested I look around for other things for him to do as I'd paid for the full hour. I managed to keep him occupied for perhaps 15 minutes checking other rads, taps and so forth. 

The thing is, every plumber in the area would have charged at least that much (I checked afterwards). Every callout has a mimimum charge and in my case, 8 years ago, it was £65 plus VAT, so taking inflation into account your plumber isn't far off (although the £55 for the parts is obviously a fib!). Hope you feel a bit less hard done by now.

EDITED TO ADD: ever since then, whenever I get a tradie in I always draw their attention to the plastering and other bits of DIY I've done - that's my way of trying to let them know that I'm reasonably handy myself and know how much parts and labour cost!

Section62

ThisIsWeird said:

ComicGeek said:

Brexit has only made 1% difference to the cost of building and trades work?

No sure what you are trying to suggest there, but on the dozens of construction sites across the South East that I visit on a regular basis there are pretty much the same number of overseas workers as there ever have been. It's only on the really dodgy sites that I visit that this has dropped, and I wouldn't like to think what those poor workers were actually being paid. I've no problem with overseas workers coming to work here, there are significant shortages of skilled workers in the industry - I'm just challenging the assertion that higher prices are the result of a lack of poorly paid Eastern European trademen.

A lot of folk are finding their hoped-for extensions curtailed, often permanently.

A lot? Permanently?

The main issue has been scarcity and cost of building products - driven both by a surge in construction activity (globally) and an increase in the cost of the energy needed to manufacture them.

Someone wanting an extension built is competing with vast projects such as HS2 (swallowing materials and labour).

But none of that seems relevant to the OP's situation, as they were able to get a trader to attend to the problem the next day.

GDB2222

Section62 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

ComicGeek said:

Brexit has only made 1% difference to the cost of building and trades work?

No sure what you are trying to suggest there, but on the dozens of construction sites across the South East that I visit on a regular basis there are pretty much the same number of overseas workers as there ever have been. It's only on the really dodgy sites that I visit that this has dropped, and I wouldn't like to think what those poor workers were actually being paid. I've no problem with overseas workers coming to work here, there are significant shortages of skilled workers in the industry - I'm just challenging the assertion that higher prices are the result of a lack of poorly paid Eastern European trademen.

A lot of folk are finding their hoped-for extensions curtailed, often permanently.

A lot? Permanently?

The main issue has been scarcity and cost of building products - driven both by a surge in construction activity (globally) and an increase in the cost of the energy needed to manufacture them.

Someone wanting an extension built is competing with vast projects such as HS2 (swallowing materials and labour).

But none of that seems relevant to the OP's situation, as they were able to get a trader to attend to the problem the next day.

Immediately after the Brexit vote, the Pound dropped 15% against the Euro, and it's stayed like that since. For a European looking to remit money abroad that was effectively an overnight pay cut of 15%. It's hardly surprising if some of those who left during the worst of the pandemic have chosen not to return.